Fireball Express wrote:And for you guys that like to point fingers... There are 2 types of people in this world; those who search for blame and those who search for solutions.
I agree completely with FE. I said:
Mookie4ever wrote:I don't know why people feel the need to dole out blame especially at such an early stage. We cannot complain about media sensationalism and at the same time accuse people of incompetence without adequate information about what people did and what they were responsible for.
and to Wr all I can say is WOW.
You are the one who started all of this with:
wrveres wrote:Is anybody utterly amazed that the city of New Orleans had/has no plan in place in case something like this happened. I mean they built an entire city not only surrounded by water but basically under water, and no one, not one major elected official has thought about the most logical basic .. What if.
This is insane. They are shooting at the military helicopters. They are stealing supplies from the people coming into help. Actually holding them up at gunpoint.
What I want to know is ... If 80% of the city is underwater, how are they stealing cars and police cars and mail trucks, and driving them around. It would seem this would be easy to police. You only have to guard 20 % of the town.
So .. They built a city 20 feet under sea level. Had no contingency in case of the most logical disaster. Had no security plan set up for its citizens in case of disaster Obviously, no pre-organized relief plan of any kind ...
Zip - None - Nada ..
Now I do not know for sure. But if had to guess, I would bet dollars to donuts that New Orleans has probably voted democrat for the better part of 40 plus years.
Not one city official had a plan .. amazing.
This is sad. Truly sad.
and then you piled on with:
wrveres wrote:Not one sandbag ready. No boats ready, even thought they are below water. Not even one "Idea" as to how to fix a hole in their wall, if it should happen. NOT ONE! No security system setup for civil disobedience.
In fact the only "solution”, I have seen by the local government, was to blame the president and the national government, which is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. That city has been there for 100's of years, and nobody addressed the obvious "What If". Even if Dubbya had made it his campaign platform and donated whatever resources necessary to fix this levee on the first day of taking office, it still wouldn't be ready today. So placing the blame on the President is the most asinine thing I have seen.
again, I'll repeat for you... Mookie!
Local government had no plan in place to evacuate an entire city below sea level, even though they have had 100's of years to draw up some sort of plan. ZIP, NADA
Local government had no plans in place to ensure the security of its citizens, in case of a natural disaster.
Local government had no plans in place to fix a hole in a levee that surrounds there entire city. ZIP, NADA
but you know what, your right, this is Bush’s fault. he should have drawn up an evacuation plan, even if any of his predecessors throughout history ignored it. This is Bush fault that he didn't ensure the safety of the citizens of New Orleans after a natural disaster. This is Bush's Fault for not come up with a contingency plan for the most logical what if scenario in a city below sea level.
why even have a local government? What do they do?
Don't get me wrong, finding out who made the bad/wrong decision, so they don't make it twice, is part of the solution process. However the initial and most important part of the process is to fix the problem at hand.
New Orleans resident Alan Gould wrote:We have what I would more or less call a modern-day genocide going on.
This genocide comparison is reprehensible.
That's for you, Mook...
Seriously, I don't think many of us here actually buy into that, but for those of you that do, here's a great article to disspell that ridiculous notion.
Michael Brown, Dir. of FEMA wrote:(CNN) - The director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency said Thursday those New Orleans residents who chose not to heed warnings to evacuate before Hurricane Katrina bear some responsibility for their fates.
Michael Brown also agreed with other public officials that the death toll in the city could reach into the thousands.
"Unfortunately, that's going to be attributable a lot to people who did not heed the advance warnings," Brown told CNN.
"I don't make judgments about why people chose not to leave but, you know, there was a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans," he said.
"And to find people still there is just heart-wrenching to me because, you know, the mayor did everything he could to get them out of there.
"So, we've got to figure out some way to convince people that whenever warnings go out it's for their own good," Brown said. "Now, I don't want to second guess why they did that. My job now is to get relief to them."
Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin have both predicted the death toll could be in the thousands.
Nagin issued a "desperate SOS" Thursday as violence disrupted efforts to rescue people still trapped in the flooded city and evacuate thousands of displaced residents living amid corpses and human waste.
Residents expressed growing frustration with the disorder evident on the streets, raising questions about the coordination and timeliness of relief efforts.
Sniper fire prevented Charity Hospital from evacuating its patients Thursday. The hospital has no electricity or water, food consists of a few cans of vegetables, and the patients had to be moved to upper floors because of looters.
Brown was upbeat in his assessment of the relief effort so far, ticking off a list of accomplishments: more than 30,000 National Guard troops will be in the city within three days, the hospitals are being evacuated and search and rescue missions are continuing.
"Considering the dire circumstances that we have in New Orleans -- virtually a city that has been destroyed -- that things are going relatively well," Brown said.
Nevertheless, he said he could "empathize with those in miserable conditions."
Asked later on CNN how he could blame the victims, many of whom could not flee the storm because they had no transportation or were too frail to evacuate on their own, Brown said he was not blaming anyone.
"Now is not the time to be blaming," Brown said. "Now is the time to recognize that whether they chose to evacuate or chose not to evacuate, we have to help them."
Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, whose father was a longtime New Orleans mayor, said there was "plenty of blame to go around," citing underinvestement by federal authorities over many years "despite pleas and warnings by officials."
Earlier on CNN, Brown was asked why authorities had not prepared for just such a catastrophe -- given that the levees were designed to withstand only a Category 3 hurricane and Katrina was stronger than that.
"Government officials and engineers will debate that and figure that out," he replied. "Right now, I'm trying to focus on saving lives. I think we should have that debate, but at an appropriate time."
Brown said Katrina was unlike other hurricanes in which the magnitude of the disaster typically subsides after the initial blow. That was not the case Monday, when the Category 4 storm blew ashore.
"What we had in New Orleans is a growing disaster: The hurricane hit, that was one disaster; then the levees broke, that was another disaster; then the floods came; that became a third disaster."
Brown said he had to be careful about getting rescue teams to the site earlier.
"Otherwise, we would have faced an even higher death toll," he said.