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Couldn't pay me to live in Washington DC......

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Postby Lofunzo » Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:56 am

My old car broke down in DC. :-o
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Postby go_jays_go » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:13 pm

Lofunzo wrote:My old car broke down in DC. :-o


That must have been interesting.. :-o
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Postby Kingctb27 » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:37 pm

Heh, i dunno if this is ture, seems like we have lost more than 60 in Iraq. :-?
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:44 pm

dannyolbb wrote:Those are some pretty damning statistics.
Or rather they would be, if they were even REMOTELY accurate.

DoD puts out a ‘news release’ everytime a Coalition casualty is publically identified, including the cause of death.

in the UK (the 3rd largest force in Iraq, right behind ‘private contractors’) they track casualties at http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/casualties.htm

other sites, like CNN compile all those releases into a long and growing list.

(i know what you’re thinking – “CNN, why those pinko leftists wouldn’t know a casualty if it bit ‘em in the ass!”)

well, how about the Army Times then?

or try http://www.icasualties.org – more specifically the ‘casualty metrics’ page, which has turned all those ‘news releases’ from DoD into a bar-graph –

http://icasualties.org/oif/Stats.aspx

there, you will see that ‘Hostile Fire’ is actually the leading cause of Coalition Casualties, with IEDs(2nd), RPGs(5th), electrocution(26th), etc. all listed separately.

------------------------
What does this mean? If you consider that there have been an average of 160,000 troops in theater during the last 22 months, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000.




sure, that's the rate you get if you use bad data (and bad math).

let's try the same calculation(s) using REAL data from the DoD -

from 01/01/04 -12/31/04 (one year) there were 334 firearms-related casualties in Iraq.
using the same math as above, you will see that the 'firearm death rate' is actually 208.75 per 100,000
(nearly quadruple the rate claimed by the author)

-----------------------
The rate in DC is 80.6 per 100,000.





NO IT ISN'T.

the DC Dept. of Health tracks mortality data, by cause of death...
the most recent year for which data has been compiled is 2002.

http://dchealth.dc.gov/services/adminis ... t2002.shtm

there is no category for ‘firearms’, but there were 220 homicides in DC in 2002.

let's pretend that knives & baseball bats & tazers don’t exist,
and that ALL of these homicides were commited with firearms.

that gives DC a ‘firearm death rate’ of 38.5 per 100,000
(less than half of the rate claimed by the author).

-
What I don't understand is why someone would make this up and forward it in their email. It's already all over the net. It seems obvious that someone is trying to make it seem as if things aren't so bad in Iraq. That is not an argument I will get into. But I will say that it seems disrespectful to the troops to lie and claim that things aren't as bad as they really are.

(This isn't directed at Madison but at the person who made this junk up)

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Postby davidmarver » Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:42 pm

dannyolbb wrote:Those are some pretty damning statistics.
Or rather they would be, if they were even REMOTELY accurate.

DoD puts out a ‘news release’ everytime a Coalition casualty is publically identified, including the cause of death.

in the UK (the 3rd largest force in Iraq, right behind ‘private contractors’) they track casualties at http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/casualties.htm

other sites, like CNN compile all those releases into a long and growing list.

(i know what you’re thinking – “CNN, why those pinko leftists wouldn’t know a casualty if it bit ‘em in the ass!”)

well, how about the Army Times then?

or try http://www.icasualties.org – more specifically the ‘casualty metrics’ page, which has turned all those ‘news releases’ from DoD into a bar-graph –

http://icasualties.org/oif/Stats.aspx

there, you will see that ‘Hostile Fire’ is actually the leading cause of Coalition Casualties, with IEDs(2nd), RPGs(5th), electrocution(26th), etc. all listed separately.

------------------------
What does this mean? If you consider that there have been an average of 160,000 troops in theater during the last 22 months, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000.




sure, that's the rate you get if you use bad data (and bad math).

let's try the same calculation(s) using REAL data from the DoD -

from 01/01/04 -12/31/04 (one year) there were 334 firearms-related casualties in Iraq.
using the same math as above, you will see that the 'firearm death rate' is actually 208.75 per 100,000
(nearly quadruple the rate claimed by the author)

-----------------------
The rate in DC is 80.6 per 100,000.





NO IT ISN'T.

the DC Dept. of Health tracks mortality data, by cause of death...
the most recent year for which data has been compiled is 2002.

http://dchealth.dc.gov/services/adminis ... t2002.shtm

there is no category for ‘firearms’, but there were 220 homicides in DC in 2002.

let's pretend that knives & <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=9&k=baseball%20bats" onmouseover="window.status='baseball bats'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">baseball bats</a> & tazers don’t exist,
and that ALL of these homicides were commited with firearms.

that gives DC a ‘firearm death rate’ of 38.5 per 100,000
(less than half of the rate claimed by the author).

-
What I don't understand is why someone would make this up and forward it in their email. It's already all over the net. It seems obvious that someone is trying to make it seem as if things aren't so bad in Iraq. That is not an argument I will get into. But I will say that it seems disrespectful to the troops to lie and claim that things aren't as bad as they really are.

(This isn't directed at Madison but at the person who made this junk up)

You're forgetting that a lot of firearm deaths are suicides. That would contribute to a much higher 'firearm death rate'.
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Postby blankman » Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:52 pm

davidmarver wrote:
dannyolbb wrote:Those are some pretty damning statistics.
Or rather they would be, if they were even REMOTELY accurate.

DoD puts out a ‘news release’ everytime a Coalition casualty is publically identified, including the cause of death.

in the UK (the 3rd largest force in Iraq, right behind ‘private contractors’) they track casualties at http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/casualties.htm

other sites, like CNN compile all those releases into a long and growing list.

(i know what you’re thinking – “CNN, why those pinko leftists wouldn’t know a casualty if it bit ‘em in the ass!”)

well, how about the Army Times then?

or try http://www.icasualties.org – more specifically the ‘casualty metrics’ page, which has turned all those ‘news releases’ from DoD into a bar-graph –

http://icasualties.org/oif/Stats.aspx

there, you will see that ‘Hostile Fire’ is actually the leading cause of Coalition Casualties, with IEDs(2nd), RPGs(5th), electrocution(26th), etc. all listed separately.

------------------------
What does this mean? If you consider that there have been an average of 160,000 troops in theater during the last 22 months, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000.




sure, that's the rate you get if you use bad data (and bad math).

let's try the same calculation(s) using REAL data from the DoD -

from 01/01/04 -12/31/04 (one year) there were 334 firearms-related casualties in Iraq.
using the same math as above, you will see that the 'firearm death rate' is actually 208.75 per 100,000
(nearly quadruple the rate claimed by the author)

-----------------------
The rate in DC is 80.6 per 100,000.





NO IT ISN'T.

the DC Dept. of Health tracks mortality data, by cause of death...
the most recent year for which data has been compiled is 2002.

http://dchealth.dc.gov/services/adminis ... t2002.shtm

there is no category for ‘firearms’, but there were 220 homicides in DC in 2002.

let's pretend that knives & <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=9&k=baseball%20bats" onmouseover="window.status='baseball bats'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">baseball bats</a> & tazers don’t exist,
and that ALL of these homicides were commited with firearms.

that gives DC a ‘firearm death rate’ of 38.5 per 100,000
(less than half of the rate claimed by the author).

-
What I don't understand is why someone would make this up and forward it in their email. It's already all over the net. It seems obvious that someone is trying to make it seem as if things aren't so bad in Iraq. That is not an argument I will get into. But I will say that it seems disrespectful to the troops to lie and claim that things aren't as bad as they really are.

(This isn't directed at Madison but at the person who made this junk up)

You're forgetting that a lot of firearm deaths are suicides. That would contribute to a much higher 'firearm death rate'.


So in other words, the 'statistic' is even further off and untrue.
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Postby Red Stripe » Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:08 pm

kingctb27 wrote:Heh, i dunno if this is ture, seems like we have lost more than 60 in Iraq. :-?


Its "firearm" death rate. Lots have been killed by mines, grenades, any other explosions, etc.
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Postby WharfRat » Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:35 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:I've lived in DC for about a year and a half now, and I live in one of the worst neighborhoods in the city. It's not too awfully bad, but you can't get pizza or Chinese food delivered to my building...so you can imagine what the neighborhood is like. Anyway, I haven't had any problems since I've lived here...but when I was living in Cali I had guns pointed at me twice.

Most tourists wont ever feel threatened coming here because the crime isnt' in the tourist areas. I would bet that 90% of the murders in DC occur in either Capital Heights or Anacostia (where I live), so if you stay in the good parts of town you'll be fine.


I hope you're able to leave Anacostia as soon as you can... :-o
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Postby Madison » Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:58 pm

8-o

Wow. Thread got a little wild huh? Just an email I got that I found interesting. I didn't research the numbers, so apologies if the email was garbage.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Postby theclefe » Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:44 pm

... the firearm death rate in Los Santos is like 4,000 per 100,000. Maybe more.
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