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The Ethics of Sabotage

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Postby sooner711 » Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:24 pm

Atrophying Testicles wrote:#$@*^%, #$(*&%@, !@%$!!!, Cafe, #$#*&^, sons of #@$*&^%, Mother @#$*^%@#$%.

I requested that they re-drop Benitez and Timlin and pick up whoever they think they need. And I offered to pay the additional money to fix it. I hope you're all happy. I have a guilty conscience. Jerks.

:~(



It seems to me that paying for the transactions is just a hair away from saying here I'll pay you $xxx if you'll trade me so and so, obvious collusion. But I do commend you for fixing the situation, good job. ;-D
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Postby warrick95 » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:28 pm

First part I have nothing against.

Second is a bit shady. I have a problem with you directly paying for transactions. I, however, feel that some gifts or taking the guys out for lunch sometime doesn't fall under the same clause.
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Postby duckbillgates » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:32 pm

The Loveable Losers wrote:Maybe I'm alone in this but the only thing he's doing is giving them (a) information to coach their team well and (b) incentive to do it. Collusion is when you get someone to do something that doesn't benefit their team in order to benefit yours. This is simply getting crappy/lazy/cheap managers to actually manage their teams.


Actually, since there's money involved, I think this falls right under your definition of collusion.
He is helping managers who are out of the money in an attempt to get his team on top.
Bragging rights and personal pride aside, he really was doing something that doesn't benefit the other team (in terms of money finish) in order to benefit his.
I'm surprised so many people are OK with nudging managers to make certain pickups or lineup changes. Even that feels kinda sleazy to me.
Inattentive managers are, unfortunately, a part of the game. The most ethical means of "sabotage" would probably be trading your players at equal or lesser value to a team that needs help in a certain category. The rest feels a little icky.
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Re: The Ethics of Sabotage

Postby raiders_umpire » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:36 pm

Atrophying Testicles wrote: I'm also paying for their transactions but he doesn't know that. Is this collusion? Should it be illegal? Or am I just making the smart move to try to sabotage my buddy by doing what I can within the rules?




i would consider this big time cheating and should definitely be illegal,,,, i would consider this grounds to being kicked out of the league......
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Postby BobbyRoberto » Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:46 am

duckbillgates wrote:
Actually, since there's money involved, I think this falls right under your definition of collusion.
He is helping managers who are out of the money in an attempt to get his team on top.
Bragging rights and personal pride aside, he really was doing something that doesn't benefit the other team (in terms of money finish) in order to benefit his.
I'm surprised so many people are OK with nudging managers to make certain pickups or lineup changes. Even that feels kinda sleazy to me.
Inattentive managers are, unfortunately, a part of the game. The most ethical means of "sabotage" would probably be trading your players at equal or lesser value to a team that needs help in a certain category. The rest feels a little icky.


I agree wholeheartedly. The whole thing feels very sleazy to me. I've never played in a money league, so maybe there's a different mindset, but I play with longtime friends for bragging rights and none of us would do something like this. It's almost like an honor code and we wouldn't even consider it. You run your own team as best you can and if you can beat out the the next guy, great. If not, you tip your cap. If I resorted to something like this to win my league, I wouldn't feel good about the victory anyway. It's common strategy to offer trades to teams who are competing in certain categories with the team you're trying to catch. The trade might even help them more than you but if it takes away from the team you're trying to catch, you make the move. That's the way it should be done, not by "influencing" other teams to make moves.
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Postby davidmarver » Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:52 am

It seems we think this tactic isn't moral, but what about from the other side of the spectrum? If you are the last place team, but are only a few saves behind the first place team in that category, is it alright to accept money to make changes? I bring this up because AT wouldn't be in the wrong if money was never accepted to begin with.
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Postby AT » Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:05 am

davidmarver wrote:It seems we think this tactic isn't moral, but what about from the other side of the spectrum? If you are the last place team, but are only a few saves behind the first place team in that category, is it alright to accept money to make changes? I bring this up because AT wouldn't be in the wrong if money was never accepted to begin with.


It's almost wrong for them to say "Nah I don't think I'll make that obvious move to try to improve my team, sorry, I don't care anymore." That's when I'm like, "Fine, if you want to do it, I'll pay for it."
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Postby josebach » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:13 pm

Atrophying Testicles wrote:
davidmarver wrote:It seems we think this tactic isn't moral, but what about from the other side of the spectrum? If you are the last place team, but are only a few saves behind the first place team in that category, is it alright to accept money to make changes? I bring this up because AT wouldn't be in the wrong if money was never accepted to begin with.


It's almost wrong for them to say "Nah I don't think I'll make that obvious move to try to improve my team, sorry, I don't care anymore." That's when I'm like, "Fine, if you want to do it, I'll pay for it."


But aren't YOU the one telling him what moves to make? What are the chances that the moves he would decide to make would be exactly the ones you would want him to make... or that he would even make them at all? The whole thing stinks!!!

BTW, did you really have them drop the players or are you just saying that to save face here? Not that I really care, but it seems if you really did that, it would tell everybody else in your league that something was going on and you don't seem stupid to me. Nobody is going to pay to pick up a closer, and then immediately drop them... especially if they don't have a chance of winning the league. Something smells fishy. ;-)
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Postby rainman23 » Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:18 pm

This is ridiculous. Manage your own team, and let them manage theirs. Paying for someone else's moves certainly is grounds to have your sorry butt kicked out of the league. You shouldn't see any prize money in this league regardless of how the rest of the year goes. I commend you for abandoning the practice, but please stop these periodic, "I don't really think it's that bad" comments. It's beyond bad, and from some of the quality posts I've seen you make on this forum, AT, I'm surprised you ever considered such a move, and are hesitant to totally repudiate it. Shame shame shame...
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