NL CY - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

NL CY

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

NL CY

Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:05 am

How important is the W/L record in CYA voting? Last year it was the deciding factor in the NL race. Supposedly. Despite being better in all other major categories, Randy Johnson finished second to Roger Clemens in the voting. Why?

Clemens 18-4, 214 IP, 2.98 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 218 SO

Johnson 16-14, 246 IP, 2.60 ERA, 0.90 WHIP, 290 SO

How did Johnson lose so many games? His team was horrible, they were 51-111. He had almost a third of his teams wins. Clemens team was 92-70 and he won about a fifth of his teams games.

This year, things will almost certainly be flip-flopped, once again in the favor of Roger Clemens. Now I like Roger just fine, but I like to see the best pitcher win. Maybe he was the best pitcher last year, maybe he is the best pitcher this year. But he isn’t/wasn’t the best pitcher both years. But he’ll have 2 Cy Young Awards for those years.

Carpenter is better than Clemens in all but one category

Clemens 11-5, 170 IP, 1.53 ERA, 1.17 WHIP, 155 SO

Carpenter 17-4, 188 IP, 2.29 ERA, .98 WHIP, 174 SO

Why the infatuation over Clemens? Is 16-14 just too ugly? Is 1.53 too pretty?
Image
Pogotheostrich
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21509
(Past Year: 450)
Joined: 9 Dec 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St. Louis

Postby prhood » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:28 am

Unless carpenter screws up badly in the last month he should and probably will earn the Cy Young award. I suspect that it's difficult for the voters to go with a pitcher whose record is 16-14 - regardless of his team's performance.

I'm reminded of one of the truly great altime season performances by Steve Carleton back in the 60's I believe. He went 27-5 with 250+ Ks and a microscopic ERA for a Philadelphia team that won only 60-65 games. Randy didn't even come close to that.
prhood
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafe Ranker
Posts: 1847
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Yoda » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:47 am

I don't think it's favored towards Clemens. He does own the lowest ERA for a starter since Bob Gibson from the 60's. He's been consistent all season long whereas Carpenter started to turn it up in June.

Also, I doubt the voters look at fantasy categories when making their decision. If Carpenter continues to pitch like he has, his Ws will probably help him win. However I'm guessing that if Clemens helps the Stros win the wild card then he'll probably win.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21344
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Postby blankman » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:54 am

Clemens should win at this point, and obviously Carpenter's best chance is to get to 20 wins because the voters have shown that Wins are a big deal. I think Randy's 14 losses to Clemens' 4 took the award away from him last year, right or wrong.
blankman
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

Graphics Expert
Posts: 10770
Joined: 6 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby freeball » Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:19 pm

[quote=However I'm guessing that if Clemens helps the Stros win the wild card then he'll probably win.[/quote]

my thoughts exactly......
freeball
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 127
Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:27 pm

blankman wrote:Clemens should win at this point
Why? That is what I'm trying to get at. Clemens has a ERA .76 lower but trails in every other stat. It just seems like people either want to vote for Clemens because he has the lowest ERA or they want to vote for Carpenter because he has the most wins. Why not take a look at all their stats?
Image
Pogotheostrich
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21509
(Past Year: 450)
Joined: 9 Dec 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St. Louis

Postby bronxxbomber » Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:36 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
blankman wrote:Clemens should win at this point
Why? That is what I'm trying to get at. Clemens has a ERA .76 lower but trails in every other stat. It just seems like people either want to vote for Clemens because he has the lowest ERA or they want to vote for Carpenter because he has the most wins. Why not take a look at all their stats?


I agree. Clemens is doing awesome, but Carpenter owns him every category outside of ERA.
Image
Who says I can't be a Yankees and Mets fan???
bronxxbomber
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicMock(ing) DrafterSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 3552
Joined: 7 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Watching Over Everything

Postby JustAnotherYanksFan » Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:43 pm

The reason Clemens should win is that the only stats that should be considered are ERA and IP. And the only stats that actually are considered are ERA and W/L.

After all, why should categories like WHIP and K's be considered? Those may be useful as predictors for future success (and they may be helpful when you're in a 5x5 roto league), but in real life, all that matters is runs. A pitcher with a lower ERA has indisputably been more effective than a pitcher with a higher ERA. It really doesn't matter that Carpenter has a better WHIP or more K's. The bottom line is that he's given up more runs, which means that he hasn't been as effective a pitcher as Clemens.

I don't believe that wins and losses should really be considered, since those are partly outside of the pitcher's control. However, innings pitched should definitely be considered, since a pitcher who throws more innings is more valuable than one who throws fewer innings. Right now, Carpenter's IP is 196.1 and Clemens' is 178.1. I'd still say the award should go to Clemens because his ERA is so much lower. (The difference is 0.78, which is pretty huge. that's the same as the difference between 3.22 and 4.00 or between 2.82 and 3.60. It's pretty significant.)
JustAnotherYanksFan
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1004
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Yoda » Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:47 pm

bronxxbomber wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
blankman wrote:Clemens should win at this point
Why? That is what I'm trying to get at. Clemens has a ERA .76 lower but trails in every other stat. It just seems like people either want to vote for Clemens because he has the lowest ERA or they want to vote for Carpenter because he has the most wins. Why not take a look at all their stats?


I agree. Clemens is doing awesome, but Carpenter owns him every category outside of ERA.


Not really. MOst batting categories favor Clemens. HR, BAA, OBP, etc...

IMHO. A starting pitcher's ultimate goal is to keep the opposition from scoring runs. Ws are too team dependent. Clemens has kept hitters off base and from scoring better than any other pitcher. Carpenter has been awesome to say the least but I really think Clemens deserves it. Therefore Carpenter will probably win the Cy. :-D
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21344
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Postby SuptownSpartans34 » Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:22 pm

Willis- 17-8, 2.67 ERA, 124 K's, 41 BB's, 6 CG, 5 SHO, 178.2 IP (Bad July otherwise he could be in this thing)

Clemens- 11-7, 1.56 ERA, 162 K's, 47 BB's, 1 CG, 0 SHO, 178 IP

Carpenter- 18-4, 2.34 ERA, 178 K's, 41 BB's, 6 CG, 1 SHO, 196 IP

Fewest wins for a non-closer to win the NL Cy Young- Fernando Venezuela (13-7, 2.48 ERA)

It will be an interesting rest of the season. ;-D
Woo Badgers
SuptownSpartans34
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 783
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Souptown

Next

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: footballisbetter.com, germani40, Ray Zorback, silverZ, Y`s Guy and 13 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Wednesday, Apr. 16
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Atlanta at Atlanta
(12:35 pm)
NY Yankees at NY Yankees
(12:35 pm)
Chi Cubs at Chi Cubs
(1:05 pm)
Detroit at Detroit
(1:10 pm)
Cleveland at Cleveland
(3:40 pm)
Washington at Miami
(7:05 pm)
indoors
Seattle at Texas
(7:05 pm)
Kansas City at Houston
(7:08 pm)
Toronto at Minnesota
(7:10 pm)
Boston at Chi White Sox
(8:05 pm)
LA Angels at LA Angels
(8:10 pm)
Oakland at Oakland
(8:10 pm)
San Diego at San Diego
(8:10 pm)
Colorado at Colorado
(10:05 pm)
San Francisco at San Francisco
(10:10 pm)
LA Dodgers at LA Dodgers
(10:15 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact