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Cops and cameras still don't mix

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Postby acsguitar » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:44 pm

Madison wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
Madison wrote:I do believe the Cops went overboard, but at the same time, who's to say he didn't have a gun in that sleeping bag?

Tough to judge the guys when we don't put our lives on the line daily while doing our jobs. Not saying they didn't go overboard, just saying that I know I'm not one to judge their actions.


By that same reasoning the cops could have beat down anyone in the street just cause he "Might have had a gun"


Now how did I know you would be the pain in the butt to misread and argue this? :-D

Here's the deal.....

The Cops were looking for an armed suspect.

They found this guy in a sleeping bag.

He refused to come out.

They tried to get him out and he fought them.

Then they tasered him, and he continued to fight, even though he had to be aware by now that he was dealing with the police (which means you come out of the sleeping bag and any idiot knows that).

They brought in the dog to end the fight.

The first thing I said in my post was that I believe they went overboard. All I'm saying is don't go nuts blaming the cops for being crazy or anything since none of us are in their position.


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Postby StlSluggers » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:58 pm

The lawsuit seeks damages as well as an injunction prohibiting the police agencies from associating with "Cops" or similar TV programs again.

Did no one see this part? WTF?!? Obviously, it was a good thing that COPS was there. Why would they seek to prohibit that?
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Postby Mookie4ever » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:03 pm

I see cops and soldiers in very much the same light.

Sure there are some bad ones but as a group they are decent people who do a heck of a job. I sure as hell wouldn't want to do their job and I'm damn glad that these guys do it and do a good job.

I'm also glad that corruption gets so much attention. The temptation to abuse their power is probably pretty strong - so when something like this does happen, I'm all for nailing the bad cops - hit em hard and make it public as a deterrent.
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Postby RugbyD » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:23 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
The lawsuit seeks damages as well as an injunction prohibiting the police agencies from associating with "Cops" or similar TV programs again.

Did no one see this part? WTF?!? Obviously, it was a good thing that COPS was there. Why would they seek to prohibit that?


There might be a 'let's be a hero on TV' mentality that contributed to the situation. They sure didn't shy away from gloating after the fact.
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Postby Simulacrum » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:47 pm

Cop #1- he's not responding to the taser, he must be too high on PCP to even feel it

Cop #2- Gotcha. Switching to the nightstick. Make sure to club him extra hard so he feels it through the sleeping bag and the headful of drugs
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Postby acsguitar » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:55 pm

_Simulacrum_ wrote:Cop #1- he's not responding to the taser, he must be too high on PCP to even feel it

Cop #2- Gotcha. Switching to the nightstick. Make sure to club him extra hard so he feels it through the sleeping bag and the headful of drugs


hahah nice ;-D

yea comeon this is a bunch of meatheads smashing people beacuse they are stupid meatheads
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:03 pm

Madison wrote:I do believe the Cops went overboard, but at the same time, who's to say he didn't have a gun in that sleeping bag?

Tough to judge the guys when we don't put our lives on the line daily while doing our jobs. Not saying they didn't go overboard, just saying that I know I'm not one to judge their actions.


Couldn't they have just cuffed him as he slept, though?? I wasn't there but it seems like they had the opportunity.
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Postby RugbyD » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:21 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
Madison wrote:I do believe the Cops went overboard, but at the same time, who's to say he didn't have a gun in that sleeping bag?

Tough to judge the guys when we don't put our lives on the line daily while doing our jobs. Not saying they didn't go overboard, just saying that I know I'm not one to judge their actions.


Couldn't they have just cuffed him as he slept, though?? I wasn't there but it seems like they had the opportunity.


COPS would never put a clip that dull on TV. Gotta be a hero!!!! !+)
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Postby Madison » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:55 pm

RugbyD wrote:That is a twisted reading. You have obviously never benn drunk, passed out, woken under totally unexpected circumstances. Not to mention tasered repeatedly while already in a total daze, thus compounding the problem.


No, I've never been so drunk that I didn't understand:

"This is the police! Put your hands where I can see them."

I've been so drunk I had to go to the hospital with alcohol poisoning, but never been to drunk to understand cops with guns telling me to put my hands where they can see them.

RugbyD wrote:"what if he had a gun?"

i dunno, is it standard practice for people passed out and non-responsive in a sleepingbag at a relatives home to be packing heat with an itchy trigger finger? There is also now way the cops didn't know they were dealing with a heavily inebriated person. If they can smell trace amounts of alcohol on a driver's breath, they would be overwhemled by the stench of a drunk passed out sweating his ass off in a sleeping bag in the middle summer.


What if he wasn't passed out in that sleeping blanket, he was the armed suspect they were looking for, and only trying to lure the cops off balance so he could take them both out? Normally houses are air conditioned, so the sweating doesn't come into play and it doesn't take much to spill a bottle of booze on the sleeping blanket.

I know all of that sounds farfetched to anyone who doesn't really analyze it, but how much trouble do we watch people go to in order to attempt to avoid capture? It's not nearly as farfetched as it first sounds.

RugbyD wrote:Madison, you often take the side of moderately coercive abuses of power, which is understandable to a degree, but this is way over the top, even for you. I am disappointed :,-( . I would rather you be the person who would argue that world is 6000 years old in the ID thread.


The world is older than 6000 years? 8-o

I kid, I kid. :-b

Why does everyone get caught up in me showing another way to look at this, and completely overlook the very first words I posted in the thread? A refresher:

Madison wrote:I do believe the Cops went overboard


You would think I wrote the cops were 100% right in what they did based on you guy's responses to what I wrote. :-/

Boggles the mind that we're just supposed to believe the cops went overboard, and trash them, without even considering the things that they have to consider with their lives on the line. A story like this is all fun and games to us, but those officers know that the person in the sleeping bag very well could kill them, and have to act accordingly. Now, did they go overboard? Yes, I believe they did, but at the same time, I'm not going to trash them without seeing the video. Not surprised that others do, but in this case, I cannot.

Lofunzo wrote:Couldn't they have just cuffed him as he slept, though?? I wasn't there but it seems like they had the opportunity.


When? According to the story, when they opened the sleeping bag, he closed it back up.

Kolp pulls on the sleeping bag. Hansen - clearly disoriented - tries to pull it back over his head,


Hansen pulls it back over his head meaning it was over his head to begin with. If it's over his head, how are they supposed to cuff him? How do they know he's even asleep?



Again so it's clear, I do believe the cops overreacted and were out of line, but unless anyone has actually seen the video, we're not in a position to trash their actions. We were not there and we do not put our lives on the line taking down criminals that don't care if they kill us, each and every single day. Odds are that we will never see the video, so whatever the courts say will be good enough for me.
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Postby RugbyD » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:07 pm

Madison wrote: Normally houses are air conditioned, so the sweating doesn't come into play

You would think I wrote the cops were 100% right in what they did based on you guy's responses to what I wrote. :-/


He wasn't in the house, he was outside.

i read your first post, but your second sounded like you changed your mind, and was a poor devil's advocate if that wasn't your intent. Makes things confusing for those of us that take civil liberties and police abuse more seriously, especially in a seemingly ridiculous circumstance.
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