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most underrated player ever?

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Postby Dr. Duran Duran » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:09 pm

Bert Blyleven gets no love. I thought for sure, with the current ballot, he'd get in with Sutter. Nope. Still not in and possibly never will be.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:54 am

baseball6791 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
davidmarver wrote:Just as a warning, I wouldn't use save percentage to justify your argument...I've been using it for ages with no avail (apparently winning % is the better measure for closers...go figure.)


No one has said that. Pitcher wins (how many wins he helped his team win). Save % has as many holes as swiss cheese.


Not looking to start an arguement, but rather I'm just interested, how is save % a bogus stat or have as many holes as swiss cheese, and why is pitcher wins a better stat?


Saves and blown saves imo, are the worst stats in bb. So many variables behond the closers control.

There are frequent 1-2-3 run saves. The guy pitching a 1 run save more often, is going to blow more.

Coming in with runners on. Those aren't the rp fault those guys are on, yet if they score, blown save.

Amount of outs needed to get save. Each extra out needed reduces save %.

A guy coming in with a 3 run lead shouldn't get the same stat (save), as a guy coming in with a 1 run lead. Same goes if there are runners on. A 1 out save shouldn't be rewarded like a 4 out save. Save % is simply a terrible stat. Jose Mesa has a better career save % then Goosage. Why? Gossage pitched 4-6 outs most the time. Mesa pitched 3 or less outs most the time, with a cushion lead. Todays closers get cheap easy saves, making their save % very high.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:55 am

Dick Allen was a good one. I'm going to change my vote to a guy rarely mentioned, yet was almost as good as Cobb.

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Postby thedude » Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:35 am

Left Grove. One of the top 5 pitchers alltime. And casual fans have never heard of him.
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Postby ukrneal » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:52 am

Jimmy foxx tends to be underappreciated, but I'mnot sure if he's undervalued. Biggio was a good pick for this too, but was a killer B, so maybe the same as Foxx.

Rusty Staub and Graig Nettles come to mind for their durability though. Seemed like they were around forever.
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Postby nuggets » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:05 pm

Will I be laughed at if I mention Dan Quisenberry's name?

I actually came to the History Forum to ask how this guy what such a great pitcher for his short career, mainly between 1981 and 1987 , and how he did this with such a low K/9.
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Postby Tavish » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:35 am

nuggets wrote:Will I be laughed at if I mention Dan Quisenberry's name?

I actually came to the History Forum to ask how this guy what such a great pitcher for his short career, mainly between 1981 and 1987 , and how he did this with such a low K/9.


When you look at this leaderboard there is something in common with every player in the top 20 except for Quiz.

He was an extreme groundball pitcher with the deceptive submarine-style delivery on top of the unmatched accuracy.
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Postby ukrneal » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:14 am

nuggets wrote:Will I be laughed at if I mention Dan Quisenberry's name?

I actually came to the History Forum to ask how this guy what such a great pitcher for his short career, mainly between 1981 and 1987 , and how he did this with such a low K/9.


Absolutely not. In fact, he's a good candidate. I loved wastching him as I grew up. Just such a cool delivery!
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Postby nuggets » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:07 pm

ukrneal wrote:
nuggets wrote:Will I be laughed at if I mention Dan Quisenberry's name?

I actually came to the History Forum to ask how this guy what such a great pitcher for his short career, mainly between 1981 and 1987 , and how he did this with such a low K/9.


Absolutely not. In fact, he's a good candidate. I loved wastching him as I grew up. Just such a cool delivery!


:-° :-)

I was very suprised to see him with the 3rd best Career ERA+ so I thought he might be worthy. I was very young when I watched him play, I liked him too.
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Postby Dr. Duran Duran » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:09 pm

Someone else I'd like to second a vote for is Craig Biggio. Guy is rock solid on the field and a leader in the clubhouse. Just seems like one of those all-stars you rarely ever hear about because he's often overshadowed by bigger name players like Bagwell. From his early days as a catcher in the late 80's to the present, he's one of my all-time favorites and someone I hope gets to Cooperstown. Though, the way voters are these days, who knows how long it will take.
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