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How come Rivera was never a SP?

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Postby Yoda » Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:14 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
Yoda wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:Just being presumptuous here, but I assume his arm couldn't shoulder the workload of a 300+ inning season of work, or the throwing 100 pitches every 5 days schedule. A lot of pitchers have had this happen, including the likes of Jason Isringhausen, Octavio Dotel, among others. Pitching under 100 IP/season is a day at the beach compared to a SPs workload of innings.


Actually this had absolutely nothing to do with it.


Then enlighten me. I'm interested, myself. As I said, I was being presumptuous, and actually have no clue. But, since you've already discounted my notion, I'd love to know the real deal.


This is what I posted shortly after the original post:

Yoda wrote:He was originally a starter. But with only a dominant fastball, he was better suited for the pen and look how well it worked out.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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Postby waterproof » Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:52 pm

Yoda wrote:
This is what I posted shortly after the original post:

Yoda wrote:He was originally a starter. But with only a dominant fastball, he was better suited for the pen and look how well it worked out.


;-D
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Postby mbuser » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:44 pm

for no apparent reason i will point out that rivera's 1990 rookie ball stats are about as good as i've ever seen

22 G (1 GS), 52 IP, 17 H, 1 ER, 7 BB, 58 K, 0.17 ERA, 0.46 WHIP

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Postby warrick95 » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:49 pm

garf112 wrote:The knuckleball acts as an off-speed pitch/ way to change the hitters eye-level on every pitch because it is so unpredictable. Therefore, a knuckleball pitcher can have success with only that one pitch.


Yeah. There are also different ways to grip the knuckleball in order to change the way it dips and breaks. Different grips change the motion of the pitch, although the idea of "no spin" stays the same. I've always that that a knuckleball/fastball pitcher would be absolutely lethal in the league. If he could completely mix the two pitches up, especially given the tremendous velocity gap between the two pitches, hitters would be completely off.

Yoda is correct. Mo doesn't have the arsenal of pitches to be a starter. Starters should have at least a fastball, breaking pitch (curve/slider), and a change.
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Postby MMoNeY24 » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:00 pm

warrick95 wrote:
garf112 wrote:The knuckleball acts as an off-speed pitch/ way to change the hitters eye-level on every pitch because it is so unpredictable. Therefore, a knuckleball pitcher can have success with only that one pitch.


Yeah. There are also different ways to grip the knuckleball in order to change the way it dips and breaks. Different grips change the motion of the pitch, although the idea of "no spin" stays the same. I've always that that a knuckleball/fastball pitcher would be absolutely lethal in the league. If he could completely mix the two pitches up, especially given the tremendous velocity gap between the two pitches, hitters would be completely off.

Yoda is correct. Mo doesn't have the arsenal of pitches to be a starter. Starters should have at least a fastball, breaking pitch (curve/slider), and a change.


Completely agreed with the knuckleball/fastball combination. The knuckler could already throw alot of guys off for as compared to other pitchers [in a different game], so you'd have to think it'd be almost unstoppable seeing both come at you in the same at bat/game. Yoda's post is correct also... I wouldn't doubt Mo being good enough to start, it's just his array of pitches wouldn't work as a starter at all.

By the way, Jury, what's with the "Yankees win" comment in your profile but the mugshot avatar of Manny? :-?
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Postby bigh0rt » Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:16 am

Yoda wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
Yoda wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:Just being presumptuous here, but I assume his arm couldn't shoulder the workload of a 300+ inning season of work, or the throwing 100 pitches every 5 days schedule. A lot of pitchers have had this happen, including the likes of Jason Isringhausen, Octavio Dotel, among others. Pitching under 100 IP/season is a day at the beach compared to a SPs workload of innings.


Actually this had absolutely nothing to do with it.


Then enlighten me. I'm interested, myself. As I said, I was being presumptuous, and actually have no clue. But, since you've already discounted my notion, I'd love to know the real deal.


This is what I posted shortly after the original post:

Yoda wrote:He was originally a starter. But with only a dominant fastball, he was better suited for the pen and look how well it worked out.


Good stuff. ;-D
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Postby superfly » Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:48 am

mbuser wrote:for no apparent reason i will point out that rivera's 1990 rookie ball stats are about as good as i've ever seen

22 G (1 GS), 52 IP, 17 H, 1 ER, 7 BB, 58 K, 0.17 ERA, 0.46 WHIP

link


He was a reliever that season. Only 1 start.
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Postby AT » Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:54 am

mbuser wrote:for no apparent reason i will point out that rivera's 1990 rookie ball stats are about as good as i've ever seen

22 G (1 GS), 52 IP, 17 H, 1 ER, 7 BB, 58 K, 0.17 ERA, 0.46 WHIP

link


Good Lord 8-o

And he's not just a 1 pitch pitcher for those who think that. Over the last couple years he's developed a tailing fastball that goes away from left handers. It's effective and keeps them from sitting off the plate and trying to focus on his cutter. Not like they were hitting it anyway but this 2nd pitch he has is devastating. When you see a hitter up there looking for his cutter (which they all do) and he drops that pitch on the outside corder they turn to ghosts.

Also, he has the best control of any pitcher I've ever seen. He almost never misses location. Ever.
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Postby Matthias » Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:04 pm

vapormike wrote:Well that's kind of like saying Pudge Rodriguez is a better catcher than A-Rod.


i imagine that would be true. at least, as far as the simile goes. you would certainly say that alex is a better hitter, but as a catcher, i'd assume pudge would be superior.

and mariano didn't always have his cutter; i'm sure that some yankee fan knows the history better than i do, but i heard some time ago, he was a reliever, and then one day just started messing around with throwing a fastball with a different grip. and it worked. the rest is in the books.

and by that point, why would you screw around with what works? i mean, tony dungy isn't approaching peyton manning in training camp and saying, "hey, peyton... you kinda got the feel for this quarterback thing. but why don't we give someone else a chance at the helm and you start running routes? could be fun."

if there's anything that joe torre has shown as a manager, it's that he has his comfort people and comfort situations. and mariano coming out of the pen to close out a game is one of them... and you can hardly blame him.
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Postby CeeLoGreen » Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:34 pm

The reason Mo wasn't a starter is that he shares a problem with alot of men in America: Lack of Stamina. You know who you are.
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