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Postby taw856 » Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:48 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... eld/050729

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... eld/050728

Figured I ought to leave the links to the Schoenfield article since I brought it up.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:24 pm

Hey AT, there were people like you who said Lou Gehrigs record was untouchable, and Cal Ripken would never come close to breaking it. Guess who was wrong there?
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Postby HOOTIE » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:38 pm

I don't think it will happen. And .400 might not happen again. No one has come close to 56. Even Rose 44 was still only 80% there. One bad game, hitting streak ends. One or two bad weeks, and .400 is tough. But the biggest reason i think neither will be done again is because of MEDIA. Joe D and Ted never faced the media scrutiny and player would face who was close to either.
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Postby AT » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:03 am

How am I in the wrong here? I didn't say Joe D's record was untouchable. I just said that certain people shouldn't be mentioned as possible breakers of this record. There are names here that are absolutely ridiculous and it's offensive to the accomplishment that players who haven't done crap in their career are considered by some fans as able to break it. That's all I'm saying. Because Benito Santiago hit in 30 straight games, then we can say that there are nobodies who can hit in 57 straight? Santiago was a big time player when he did that and to hit in another 27 straight after what Santiago did? Damon was absolutely on fire this year and he didn't reach 30. Pujols only made it to 30. Molitor didn't make it to 40. All I'm saying is show a little respect for the accomplishment and don't cheapen it by bringing up ridiculous names.
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Postby gabenterprises » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:11 am

I wish Nomar was the guy I remember from 1997 on through 2003. Nomar had four streaks of at least 20 games: 34 in 1997, 24 in 1998, 20 in 2000, and 26 in 2003.
Teddy Ballgame thought he had the best chance of hittig .400.
Three years ago, I would have said Nomar seriously in this thread, and then followed that up with "no chance, really." Still, I hope we see that guy hitting like Ichiro with power again, before he retires.
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Postby dannyolbb » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:17 am

Atrophying Testicles wrote:How am I in the wrong here? I didn't say Joe D's record was untouchable. I just said that certain people shouldn't be mentioned as possible breakers of this record. There are names here that are absolutely ridiculous and it's offensive to the accomplishment that players who haven't done crap in their career are considered by some fans as able to break it. That's all I'm saying. Because Benito Santiago hit in 30 straight games, then we can say that there are nobodies who can hit in 57 straight? Santiago was a big time player when he did that and to hit in another 27 straight after what Santiago did? Damon was absolutely on fire this year and he didn't reach 30. Pujols only made it to 30. Molitor didn't make it to 40. All I'm saying is show a little respect for the accomplishment and don't cheapen it by bringing up ridiculous names.


But you can't be the arbitrar of what a ridiculous name is. I brought up Ian Stewart. Let me walk you through why I named him.

Coors Field is the place where a challenge to the record could take place. The park is that far and above every other park that people play in today. And although Ian Stewart may not be the guy to challenge 56, he is the Rockies best hitting prospect (that I know of) and if it's going to happen, Coors Field will most likely play a factor. Toss in the fact that you have a consistently bad Padres team in the division and the unbalanced schedule allows a hitter to see a pitcher more often and become more comfortable with him and you've got a recipe for success.

Maybe it won't be Stewart. It probably won't be. But I'd bet dollars to donuts that if it happens, Coors Field is where Mr. 57 plays his home games. Or maybe in Arlington (although it's too bad he wouldn't be able to face Rangers pitching).

Just because you don't know a player doesn't make him a nobody. It just means he isn't on the Yankees.
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Postby gabenterprises » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:21 am

Zing!
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Postby slomo007 » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:50 pm

Atrophying Testicles wrote:Wily Taveras, Jose Reyes, Michael Young, Carl Crawford, Ichiro, Pujols, Vlad, Miggy, Johnny Damon, Juan Pierre, Rickie Weeks have all been seriously mentioned as guys who could hit in 56 straight games. Read that again. The only guys to "come close" in the last 27 years of note:

1978 Pete Rose 44 (All time hit king)
1987 Paul Molitor 39 (Hall of Fame)
2002 Luis Castillo 35
1987 Benito Santiago 34
1999 Vlad Guerrero 31 (Future HOF)
2003 Albert Pujols 30 (Future HOF)
2005 Johnny Damon 29

The full list is below of guys who have gone over 30...
http://www.thebaseballpage.com/stats/li ... treaks.htm

After you go through that list of guys who have gotten within 12 or more games of catching Joe go back to this thread and read the names people have thrown out there and then maybe you will have 1/2 the reaction I'm having right now. You guys are out of your minds. There are certain records in sports that you just don't put certain names to as "maybe this guy could break it" and this is one of them. It's sacred, and for guys who are as baseball educated as most cafe members are, a lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves. No joke. Think about it. This whole thread is insulting to that record and it cheapens it quite a bit.


So, you're saying, that Michael Young can't do what Luis Castillo did? By that, I mean, at least semi-threaten the hit streak record. Give me a break.

Any of the guys you mentioned are capable of being on that list at some point in their careers. Reyes and Weeks will need a LOT of progression however. I would probably throw Weeks out.

I maintain that Ichiro (obviously), Crawford, Young and Reyes all have shots if they improve in the next few years.
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Postby AT » Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:30 pm

dannyolbb wrote:
Atrophying Testicles wrote:How am I in the wrong here? I didn't say Joe D's record was untouchable. I just said that certain people shouldn't be mentioned as possible breakers of this record. There are names here that are absolutely ridiculous and it's offensive to the accomplishment that players who haven't done crap in their career are considered by some fans as able to break it. That's all I'm saying. Because Benito Santiago hit in 30 straight games, then we can say that there are nobodies who can hit in 57 straight? Santiago was a big time player when he did that and to hit in another 27 straight after what Santiago did? Damon was absolutely on fire this year and he didn't reach 30. Pujols only made it to 30. Molitor didn't make it to 40. All I'm saying is show a little respect for the accomplishment and don't cheapen it by bringing up ridiculous names.


But you can't be the arbitrar of what a ridiculous name is. I brought up Ian Stewart. Let me walk you through why I named him.

Coors Field is the place where a challenge to the record could take place. The park is that far and above every other park that people play in today. And although Ian Stewart may not be the guy to challenge 56, he is the Rockies best hitting prospect (that I know of) and if it's going to happen, Coors Field will most likely play a factor. Toss in the fact that you have a consistently bad Padres team in the division and the unbalanced schedule allows a hitter to see a pitcher more often and become more comfortable with him and you've got a recipe for success.

Maybe it won't be Stewart. It probably won't be. But I'd bet dollars to donuts that if it happens, Coors Field is where Mr. 57 plays his home games. Or maybe in Arlington (although it's too bad he wouldn't be able to face Rangers pitching).

Just because you don't know a player doesn't make him a nobody. It just means he isn't on the Yankees.


I know who Ian Stewart is big shot. I wrote up a profile of him when I did a scouting report on the top 65 minor league players about a month ago. I think he was in the top 10 and my #1 or #2 third basemen. The fact that he's the rockies best hitting prospect and plays at Coors field doesn't mean he deserves to be considered as a possibility to break Joe D's hit streak. You are wrong, you're out of your mind, you're basically delusional, and you're making yourself sound like a moron. Especially when you imply I only know players on the Yankees because I'm a Yankees fan and you don't agree with my stance on this issue.

And that argument about playing against the Padres isn't helping your argument given that if they play in the NL West for the Rockies they will likely hit a few pitchers parks to offset the hitter friendly Coors along their streak. Namely Petco, the best pitcher's park in the majors. And the unbalanced schedules allowing a player to see pitchers more often...How is that more favorable for any one player over another? Also consider how few players have come "close" to Joe D with all the advantages that today's hitters have had over the past 70 years.

Consider that DiMaggio did it with bigger ballparks, higher mounds, and weaker baseballs. He had all those things working against him and noone has come within 11 games of his streak despite all the greats that have come along since him and all the offensive improvements made to the game and noone has even come close. But Ian Stewart has a shot because he's going to get to play the Padres and in Coors field, and there are more pitchers in the league now? C'mon...Think about what you're saying. There have been lots of offensive improvements to the game and still the only player to get within 16 games of DiMaggio is Pete Rose and he still couldn't get closer than 12 back.

Do I think Crawford, Young, Ichiro, and Reyes are a few players who have "the best shot" of today's players to break the record? Yeah I guess they have "the best shot" of today's players. But just because Luis Castillo hit in 35 straight games and these guys are better players than he is, doesn't mean they'll challenge 56, or 40 for that matter or even 35.

When did I say that I don't think any of these players couldn't do what Luis Castillo did? When did I say that hitting in 35 straight games isn't semi-threatening the hit streak? I never did so stop putting words in my mouth. All I said is the only player I would consider as discussable right now as having a realistic chance to seriously challenge the 56 straight games is Ichiro. Any other player's mention to get to 56 is ridiculous and unrealistic. Do I think there are some players that can get to 35? Sure. 40? It's possible. 50? Nope.

You say Luis Castillo. I say Pete Rose. And he still didn't get within 10.

This all being said, I'd love to see someone challenge the hit streak someday. I think it would be incredibly exciting, intriguing, must see and one of the biggest stories in the history of sports for probably 3 weeks and another 2 weeks or more if the player did break it.
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Postby slomo007 » Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:45 pm

AT wrote:When did I say that I don't think any of these players couldn't do what Luis Castillo did? When did I say that hitting in 35 straight games isn't semi-threatening the hit streak? I never did so stop putting words in my mouth. All I said is the only player I would consider as discussable right now as having a realistic chance to seriously challenge the 56 straight games is Ichiro. Any other player's mention to get to 56 is ridiculous and unrealistic. Do I think there are some players that can get to 35? Sure. 40? It's possible. 50? Nope.


I think we're all in agreeance that Young and Ichiro are MUCH better hitters than Castillo ever was. Yet, Castillo got to 35. Therefore, reasoning tells you that it's most DEFINITELY possible, and even somewhat likely that the most talented hitters in the game will eventually break Joe D's streak. Castillo is not even that good and he pulled it off simply because he's a contact hitter with good speed (especially back then, he's slowed down now). Ichiro is a great contact hitter with great speed, therefore I think he will eventually threaten the streak, by getting to 40+. Does that mean he'll get to 56? Your guess is as good as mine, but I do think he's got a decent shot at it. Beyond 40 will take a lot of lucky breaks and some generous scoring by the official scorer.

The streak is impressive, but you're saying it's untouchable. I really don't think it is.
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