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Steroids - is anyone still in denial?

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Postby mweir145 » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:52 am

Tokugawa wrote:Yeah I'm full of hate and what's the problem with that?

So f#$% you!

:-?
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Postby RyanK » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:59 am

mweir145 wrote:
Tokugawa wrote:Yeah I'm full of hate and what's the problem with that?

So f#$% you!

:-?


exactly.. :-°
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Postby KolbSaves » Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:35 am

Whatroids?
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Postby YardBirds » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:40 am

He has what most Americans call "Penis Envy". The only reason Japan has baseball is because of the occupation after WW2. Enjoy what we gave you and stop hating America.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:18 am

_Simulacrum_ wrote:
Tokugawa wrote:Yeah I'm full of hate and what's the problem with that?

So f#$% you!


You seem overly aggressive... I suspect you are on the roids :-?



Crack me up :-D
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Postby bigh0rt » Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:54 am

YardBirds wrote:He has what most Americans call "Penis Envy". The only reason Japan has baseball is because of the occupation after WW2. Enjoy what we gave you and stop hating America.


Preach on, soul man.
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Postby NYMetsIn2k4 » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:20 am

I was wondering... to anyone in here who is familiar with supplements such as 1-AD, M1T, or the more commonly known Androstene Dione, or any other Prohormone for that matter. My question is would these come back as Steroids if a test were taken? I know they do increase Testosterone production but are far far from Steroids, but they also just recently became part of Baseballs Banned List, along with Ephedra, etc. So I was wondering if there's a possibility that some of these players aren't taking Winny, EQ, Deca, HGH, etc... and just taking Prohormones(PH's)?
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Postby prodigy14 » Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:46 am

YardBirds wrote:He has what most Americans call "Penis Envy". The only reason Japan has baseball is because of the occupation after WW2. Enjoy what we gave you and stop hating America.


Actually baseball was introduced to Japan prior to WWII and enjoyed huge popularity there. Of course then the nationalistic, military leaders came into power and baseball was discouraged as western influence on the nation.
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Postby RC » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:18 am

NYMetsIn2k4 wrote:I was wondering... to anyone in here who is familiar with supplements such as 1-AD, M1T, or the more commonly known Androstene Dione, or any other Prohormone for that matter. My question is would these come back as Steroids if a test were taken? I know they do increase Testosterone production but are far far from Steroids, but they also just recently became part of Baseballs Banned List, along with Ephedra, etc. So I was wondering if there's a possibility that some of these players aren't taking Winny, EQ, Deca, HGH, etc... and just taking Prohormones(PH's)?


It's a good question, but unfortunately for Raffy, you can't test positive for Stanazolol and it's metabolites without taking the actual banned/controlled drug.

But there are often instances where an athlete can test positive for something like Nandralone (and it's metabolites) but ingest it through a supplement. It's more difficult now that prohormones are banned, because companies aren't producing them to be sold, but sometimes there's contamination. Other times, sleazy supplement companies will put prohormones and other non-label additives into a supplement to make it seem like it works better than the actual listed ingredients work.

But it's pretty rare that you'd find something like Winstrol (stanazolol) in a supplement because it's illegal for sale. If a supplement company has a prohormone in it's product and gets caught, they used to be able to plead to cross-contamination being the cause. But if an actual scheduled drug were in their protein powder, not only are they breaking a bunch of FDA rules, but the DEA would want to know how they got a hold of this. Big trouble.

But that's all moot now that 1) Raffy reportedly tested positive for Winstrol and 2) prohormones are banned for sale now, so they're not coming off the same production and processing lines like they used to.

Even if the players are taking Prohormones, they are banned and illegal as well as per Congress' new bill passed last year or the year before and MLB's drug policy. So, if they were on Prohormones, they're cheating just the same and they'll get caught.

Things like Androstenodiol convert to testosterone but are also anabolic on their own. Whether they cause you to test positive for Andro or if they cause a high epi-test score escapes memory. But Nor-Andro will cause you to test positive for Nor-testosterone (Nandralone) and fail.

My own personal view is that because Nor-Andro was widely produced and there have been many contamination problems and positive tests that have resulted, if an athlete tests positive for Nandralone or it's metabolites, the athlete was likely a victim of contaminated products because Nandralone takes 2 years to completely clear from the body and is therefore a poor choice for any athlete subject to random drug tests. Andro probably isn't detectable in smaller amounts because it already exists in the body and the contaminant amounts aren't supraphysiological most times.

That's not to say that there are likely masking agents that could hide a drug like nandralone, but obviously the masking agents aren't working every time. Another thing to consider is that BALCO probably isn't the only lab that producing designer steroids that governing bodies can't test for because they don't know that they exist.

Bottom line is that both pitchers and players are taking performance enhancers and just like the Olympics (where everyone's one something), so it's a level playing field.

Hope that answers some Q's.
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Postby NYMetsIn2k4 » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:33 pm

RC wrote:
NYMetsIn2k4 wrote:I was wondering... to anyone in here who is familiar with supplements such as 1-AD, M1T, or the more commonly known Androstene Dione, or any other Prohormone for that matter. My question is would these come back as Steroids if a test were taken? I know they do increase Testosterone production but are far far from Steroids, but they also just recently became part of Baseballs Banned List, along with Ephedra, etc. So I was wondering if there's a possibility that some of these players aren't taking Winny, EQ, Deca, HGH, etc... and just taking Prohormones(PH's)?


It's a good question, but unfortunately for Raffy, you can't test positive for Stanazolol and it's metabolites without taking the actual banned/controlled drug.

But there are often instances where an athlete can test positive for something like Nandralone (and it's metabolites) but ingest it through a supplement. It's more difficult now that prohormones are banned, because companies aren't producing them to be sold, but sometimes there's contamination. Other times, sleazy supplement companies will put prohormones and other non-label additives into a supplement to make it seem like it works better than the actual listed ingredients work.

But it's pretty rare that you'd find something like Winstrol (stanazolol) in a supplement because it's illegal for sale. If a supplement company has a prohormone in it's product and gets caught, they used to be able to plead to cross-contamination being the cause. But if an actual scheduled drug were in their protein powder, not only are they breaking a bunch of FDA rules, but the DEA would want to know how they got a hold of this. Big trouble.

But that's all moot now that 1) Raffy reportedly tested positive for Winstrol and 2) prohormones are banned for sale now, so they're not coming off the same production and processing lines like they used to.

Even if the players are taking Prohormones, they are banned and illegal as well as per Congress' new bill passed last year or the year before and MLB's drug policy. So, if they were on Prohormones, they're cheating just the same and they'll get caught.

Things like Androstenodiol convert to testosterone but are also anabolic on their own. Whether they cause you to test positive for Andro or if they cause a high epi-test score escapes memory. But Nor-Andro will cause you to test positive for Nor-testosterone (Nandralone) and fail.

My own personal view is that because Nor-Andro was widely produced and there have been many contamination problems and positive tests that have resulted, if an athlete tests positive for Nandralone or it's metabolites, the athlete was likely a victim of contaminated products because Nandralone takes 2 years to completely clear from the body and is therefore a poor choice for any athlete subject to random drug tests. Andro probably isn't detectable in smaller amounts because it already exists in the body and the contaminant amounts aren't supraphysiological most times.

That's not to say that there are likely masking agents that could hide a drug like nandralone, but obviously the masking agents aren't working every time. Another thing to consider is that BALCO probably isn't the only lab that producing designer steroids that governing bodies can't test for because they don't know that they exist.

Bottom line is that both pitchers and players are taking performance enhancers and just like the Olympics (where everyone's one something), so it's a level playing field.

Hope that answers some Q's.


Great Post! And it definetely helped answer some questions. I also agree that more/if not all athletes are taking something to enhance they're performance, especially in todays sports.
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