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Need to be famous for "Hall of Fame"?

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Need to be dominating to make the Hall?

Poll ended at Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:39 pm

Yes
10
42%
No
14
58%
 
Total votes : 24

Postby Tavish » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:41 pm

Iconoclastic wrote:I say only players on the elite plane of dominance and fame such as Willie Mays, Babe Ruth, Bonds, Aaron, etc should be in the Hall. I don't remember it called the Hall of Consistency


Aaron was never a dominant player, he was one of the most consistent players to play the game. Time to move him over to the lesser player Hall.
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:09 pm

Tavish wrote:Aaron was never a dominant player, he was one of the most consistent players to play the game. Time to move him over to the lesser player Hall.


aaron had 1 mvp and 8 top 5 finishes. lead the league in homers a couple times, rbi a couple times, runs a couple times....

http://baseball-reference.com/a/aaronha01.shtml

consistent yes, but consistent at a higher level than raffy.
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Postby Tavish » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:19 pm

j_d_mcnugent wrote:
Tavish wrote:Aaron was never a dominant player, he was one of the most consistent players to play the game. Time to move him over to the lesser player Hall.


aaron had 1 mvp and 8 top 5 finishes. lead the league in homers a couple times, rbi a couple times, runs a couple times....

http://baseball-reference.com/a/aaronha01.shtml

consistent yes, but consistent at a higher level than raffy.



Without a doubt he was a better player than Raffy, but not dominant. The quote I was replying to stated that if you weren't a dominant player then you shouldn't be in the Hall. I get tired of hearing the arguement that the Hall should be reserved for players on the level of Ruth, Mays, and Cobb. That just is not what the Hall represents and really doubt that is what it was ever meant to represent. It honors the great players of the game, and players who were very good over a long period of time are just that.
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:35 pm

Tavish wrote:Without a doubt he was a better player than Raffy, but not dominant. The quote I was replying to stated that if you weren't a dominant player then you shouldn't be in the Hall.


unfortunately i am not old enough to have seen aaron play but i looked at the stats and the amount of times he was in the top 10, in the top 5 and leading the league in offensive categories i cant believe that he wasnt a dominant player. 8 times in the top 5 in mvp voting and not dominant?


I get tired of hearing the arguement that the Hall should be reserved for players on the level of Ruth, Mays, and Cobb. That just is not what the Hall represents and really doubt that is what it was ever meant to represent. It honors the great players of the game, and players who were very good over a long period of time are just that.


thats your opinion of what the HOF is, and you are entitled to it, but its just your opinion. there is no hard and true decisive definition of who should be in it. we know the HOF was formed to remember the history of baseball. how that is supposed to work is a matter of debate.
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Postby Tavish » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:01 pm

j_d_mcnugent wrote:
Tavish wrote:Without a doubt he was a better player than Raffy, but not dominant. The quote I was replying to stated that if you weren't a dominant player then you shouldn't be in the Hall.


unfortunately i am not old enough to have seen aaron play but i looked at the stats and the amount of times he was in the top 10, in the top 5 and leading the league in offensive categories i cant believe that he wasnt a dominant player. 8 times in the top 5 in mvp voting and not dominant?


While you are looking at all the times he finished in the top 10 and top 5 in those categories flip over and take a look at Ruth, Williams, Cobb, Bonds, Wagner, and Musial. There is a difference between being as good as your contemporaries and being better than them. Dominant player come along very rarely, there is a place in the Hall for those who are just simply "great".
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:10 pm

Tavish wrote:
Iconoclastic wrote:I say only players on the elite plane of dominance and fame such as Willie Mays, Babe Ruth, Bonds, Aaron, etc should be in the Hall. I don't remember it called the Hall of Consistency


Aaron was never a dominant player, he was one of the most consistent players to play the game. Time to move him over to the lesser player Hall.

From 1955 to 1973 Hank Aaron recieved MVP votes, once winning it. Aaron won two batting titles, three gold gloves (back when they meant something), was a 21-time All-Star, led the league in slugging % four times, OPS three times, runs three times, hits twice, total bases eight times, doubles four times, homeruns four times, RBIs four times, not to mention the fact that he was a 30/30 player, is the all-time leader in homeruns, rbis, extra base hits, and total bases. Yep, he and Rafael Palmeiro are very similar ;-7 .

Here's a list of what Palmeiro has led the league in:
1990 - Hits, Singles
1991 - Doubles
1993 - Runs
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Postby Doughhead » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:14 pm

Why not celebrate Raffy's accomplishments (steroids aside). It's not as if he hit 10 home runs a year for 50 years or anything. No, he was never dominant. But it's hard to argue with a guy who put up consistently terrific numbers for a good couple of decades. His numbers are not borderline. They are solid, solid HOF numbers. So what if he never won an MVP or a batting title. He was a great hitter, if not necessarily a dominant one. It still seems iffy to ignore what he did just because his "name" wasn't as big as Bonds or Mays.

If the Hall was only meant for the truly dominant (and I'm not saying that it shouldn't be) then what the hell are Kirby Puckett and Don Sutton doing in there, not to mention Roger Bresnahan and Rick Ferrell. Raffy fits in that Hall and shouldn't be denied his place in history.
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Postby Tavish » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:22 pm

davidmarver wrote:From 1955 to 1973 Hank Aaron recieved MVP votes, once winning it. Aaron won two batting titles, three gold gloves (back when they meant something), was a 21-time All-Star, led the league in slugging % four times, OPS three times, runs three times, hits twice, total bases eight times, doubles four times, homeruns four times, RBIs four times, not to mention the fact that he was a 30/30 player, is the all-time leader in homeruns, rbis, extra base hits, and total bases. Yep, he and Rafael Palmeiro are very similar ;-7 .


For the second time, Aaron is better than Palmeiro, Aaron is 10 times better than Palmerio, Palmeiro couldn't carry Aaron's jock. Aaron deserves to be in the Hall of Fame without a second thought. Aaron was a superstar and Palmerio was a salesman.

Guess what all of this has to do with the post that I've had to clear up now for the second time. Zip, nada, nothing. I never once compared Aaron to Palmeiro. I never even mentioned Palmeiro. I don't even know who this Palmeiro person is.

Confused Tavish wrote:
Iconoclastic wrote:I say only players on the elite plane of dominance and fame such as Willie Mays, Babe Ruth, Bonds, Aaron, etc should be in the Hall. I don't remember it called the Hall of Consistency


Aaron was never a dominant player, he was one of the most consistent players to play the game. Time to move him over to the lesser player Hall.


Him: The Hall is meant for dominant players like Aaron.
Me: Aaron wasn't dominant.
The Angry Mob: How can you say Palmeiro is similar to Aaron?

:-? :-?
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:28 pm

Tavish, I copy/pasted that post from mine from another post dealing with Aaron and it was in respect to Palmeiro. That post wasn't directed at you, but more of the notion (which was the next logistical step if you argue Aaron isn't dominant) that Palmeiro should be in because Aaron is.
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Postby mweir145 » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:51 am

No, the Hall of Fame is a career achievement, it doesn't matter if you didn't dominate a season, votes are based on the numbers you produce over the course of a career (example would be Palmeiro).
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