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Winn Traded to the Giants

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Postby carter » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:04 am

hybrid wrote:Well they traded away pitchers with potential, for mostly just 1 year stop gaps that they knew where mainly just about average. IMO that's just not good value, the players they traded for haven't helped in any way really.


i agree - most of them have been washes... the Nathan was obviously painful, but look what Aj's doing now, he's not a wasted player - i think there was some bad luck there too and Sabean has to take the heat for it and be questioned on every friggin trade he ever makes now.. unfortunate
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Postby hybrid » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:12 am

Yep, and didn't they just release A.J. for nothing cause he "wore out his welcome"? So they gave up Nathan, Boof, and Liriano (who is really looking like a steal) for a 1 year player .... I would cringe at that deal if I was a Giants fan.
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Postby carter » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:36 am

hybrid wrote:Yep, and didn't they just release A.J. for nothing cause he "wore out his welcome"? So they gave up Nathan, Boof, and Liriano (who is really looking like a steal) for a 1 year player .... I would cringe at that deal if I was a Giants fan.


well,, boof and liriano havent done a single solitary thing yet, you cant rejoice on unproven players yet... really, the worst part of the whole mess is releasing AJ .. because he's a good hitting catcher, better then most in the majors.... this wasn't the worst trade in the world, its just went sour on the Giants....

give Sabean a friggin break and stop bringing up HISTORY.. he just made a nice trade and grabbed Randy Winn for 2 players that will amount to practically nothing.. you can quote me on that
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Postby mweir145 » Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:09 am

shmolex wrote:as a giants fan, I'm thinking that there is probably going to be another trade after this, either dealing Winn or another OF in a package deal. We currently have 6 OF: Feliz, Winn, Ellison, Tucker, Alou, Sanchez and 7 if Barry returns this year. It was clear from the beginning of the year that the Giants were only playing for this year and the next. I assume this move is for next year as an outfield of Barry, Moises and Randy is pretty good.

I'm not all that upset about losing Foppert and Yorvit. Foppert was considered a top prospect awhile ago, but something happened to his supposed velocity and ever since, from what I saw, he's been nothing more than an average player. Yorvit was a below average bat, decent arm and defense and had some speed for a catcher. I dont think that the player we called up to replace him (Haad) will do much worse than him. Plus Matheny was starting almost everyday anyway.

So overall, eh...I'm not excited or depressed. I'm just hoping Sabean deals one of these outfielders for a starter.


Ya thats what I thought when the Toronto Raptors drafted Charlie Villenueva at the #7 spot in the NBA draft this year. I believed a trade was in order, and guess what, it never came. :,-(
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Postby mweir145 » Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:10 am

carter wrote:
hybrid wrote:Yep, and didn't they just release A.J. for nothing cause he "wore out his welcome"? So they gave up Nathan, Boof, and Liriano (who is really looking like a steal) for a 1 year player .... I would cringe at that deal if I was a Giants fan.


well,, boof and liriano havent done a single solitary thing yet, you cant rejoice on unproven players yet... really, the worst part of the whole mess is releasing AJ .. because he's a good hitting catcher, better then most in the majors.... this wasn't the worst trade in the world, its just went sour on the Giants....

give Sabean a friggin break and stop bringing up HISTORY.. he just made a nice trade and grabbed Randy Winn for 2 players that will amount to practically nothing.. you can quote me on that


You are right though, it isn't absolutely terrible. We will just have to see what Foppart amounts to.
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Postby Euclid » Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:20 am

i think this is a horrible move for the giants and i'm a big fan. You take away the backup catcher along with one of the better young arms in the system to upgrade from ellison, feliz or tucker in an outfield spot? I think the gain from winn over those outfielders isn't nearly as bad as loosing fopert and yorvit. I really hope there is another deal here because dealing for a player like winn won't win games for just about any team and it isn't a rebuilding move either. I'm starting to wonder if the giants should trade the rights to being on the bay for Beane and the A's like the giants announcers were joking about the other day.
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Postby water boy » Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:35 am

I can't believe this trade,i was hoping the giants were going to be selling and building for next year,and then they pull this.Sabean has got to go now he just is not putting any thought to any of his trades now.I had a chalk talk with sabaen a few months ago and one question that was asked what you trade your young pitching he said no we want to build our rotation for the future.since then he has traded


Arasdma
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Foppert

for Hawkins,Winn,

and don't forget the AJ for Nathan,Boof and Liarano :~( :~( :~(

as a giant season ticket holder and a diehard fan this makes me sick :,-(
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Postby eftda » Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:46 am

Great move for the Giants if they can move Grissom. Durham is a FA at the end of the season, so they will need a leadoff hitter for the 2006 season. Winn, Vizquel, Feilz, Bonds, Alou, Nikero, etc. Can't say I'm happy that they sent Foppert, but none of the Giants "stud" prospects have done much in the Majors. Lowry has been there star, and he shouldn't be on anything but a deep keeper league.
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Postby Bloody Nipples » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:18 am

hybrid wrote:Yep, and didn't they just release A.J. for nothing cause he "wore out his welcome"? So they gave up Nathan, Boof, and Liriano (who is really looking like a steal) for a 1 year player .... I would cringe at that deal if I was a Giants fan.


I dont really fault Sabean for how wrong that trade went, but when I look back on all the things that did happen because of it, I do indeed cringe. Lets take a look:

First, the trade happens. The Giants get rid of Nathan, who had been very good the year before, and receive Pierzynski, a hitting catcher who has a history of players disliking him. The trade blocks Torrealba, a good defensive catcher who's hitting would probably have improved with more experience, from becoming a starter.

As we all know, Nathan goes on to become a top closer, and the Giants (after another failed comeback by the great Rob Nen) are left to throw Matt Herges out in the 9th inning. That quickly turns into a gigantic disaster, so Hermanson is brought in to do the closing duties. He fairs well, very well in fact, over most of the last part of the season, but blows an important game at the very end of the season.

For some reason, the Giants fail to bring Hermanson back for 2005, and thus have to spend lots of cash to bring in Benitez. As we all know, Benitez tears his groin off his bone, while Hermanson does very well as closer for the White Sox. Meanwhile, having pissed off management and fellow players the year before, Pierzynski is released, and so the Giants spend yet more money to bring in Matheny, who admittedly has been excellent and a joy to watch.

The original trade, therefore, turned out to be essentially Joe Nathan and lots of cash for Tyler Walker and Matheny. I would much rather have the stable Nathan closing games, the up-and-coming Torrealba behind the plate, and some stud pitcher brought in with all the cash saved.

That trade has been a disaster.

There, I feel a little bit better.

Oh, by the way, Winn for Torrealba and Foppert? Not a great deal, not a terrible deal. Lets just hope the Giants win next year :-o
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Postby thehat » Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:02 am

Winn is a proven big league OF. Not as big a star as it looked like he would be when he was in Tampa, but a decent player nonetheless.

Foppert isn't close to being the prospect he was pre-TJS. Velocity hasn't returned, command is absent. As for Torrealba, he's a dime a dozen backup C. Big deal.

I think this is a very nice move by Sabean, and yet another ridiculous maneuver by Bavasi. Talk about a guy who has a job only because of his family name...sheesh.
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