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Postby rlee » Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:39 pm

Maybe we're not talking about the same situation. A fielder's choice is when the batter reaches 1st safely because the fielder has chosen to make a play on another runner when he could have retired the batter.

If someone hits into a double play, they do not reach first safely, so it cannot be a fielder's choice. It's a double play.
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Postby matmat » Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:48 pm

hmmm... what about the following two situations:

1)
0 outs, runners on 1st and 3rd batter flies out to the outfield. the runner at third tags and scores, the runner at second strayed off the base and doesn't get back in time and is called out. RBI or no RBI?

2) same situation, but the runner from first is tagged out at 2B having tagged up properly. RBI or no RBI?
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Postby Oat Soda » Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:52 pm

rlee wrote:Maybe we're not talking about the same situation. A fielder's choice is when the batter reaches 1st safely because the fielder has chosen to make a play on another runner when he could have retired the batter.

If someone hits into a double play, they do not reach first safely, so it cannot be a fielder's choice. It's a double play.


What are you talking about? I quoted the exact definition of a fielder's choice straight from the rulebook. If that's not a fielder's choice, what do you call it?
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Postby bdrotoronto » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:01 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:You make 2 outs in 1 AB, you do not deserve an rbi...simple as that. There is no mystery to the origin of the scroing rationale here.

That's exactly it. I think there is no RBI credited b/c the play is entirely negative for the hitting team. 1st and 3rd with no outs should be the start of a big inning (scoring 1 run is basically assumed as a given, for most teams), but instead the double play basically shuts the inning down and kills any potential rally. The team is left with just 1 run scored and no-one on with two out. Hence the batter is not 'credited' with having achieved anything positive, since almost anything would have been a better result than what he accomplished.
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Postby Oat Soda » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:01 pm

matmat wrote:hmmm... what about the following two situations:

1)
0 outs, runners on 1st and 3rd batter flies out to the outfield. the runner at third tags and scores, the runner at second strayed off the base and doesn't get back in time and is called out. RBI or no RBI?

2) same situation, but the runner from first is tagged out at 2B having tagged up properly. RBI or no RBI?


An RBI in both situations, assuming the runner from 3rd also scored in the second scenario.
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Postby rlee » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:07 pm

Oat Soda wrote:
rlee wrote:Maybe we're not talking about the same situation. A fielder's choice is when the batter reaches 1st safely because the fielder has chosen to make a play on another runner when he could have retired the batter.

If someone hits into a double play, they do not reach first safely, so it cannot be a fielder's choice. It's a double play.


What are you talking about? I quoted the exact definition of a fielder's choice straight from the rulebook. If that's not a fielder's choice, what do you call it?


I call it a double play. Have you ever kept score? When a batter hits into a double play, ther is no notation of a FC. You have a FC when there's a man on first and the batter forces him at 2nd, but reaches first safely. Then a FC is designated on the scorecard. He reached first safely BECAUSE the fielder chose to get another baserunner. There is no FC when the batter is retired.
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Postby Oat Soda » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:14 pm

rlee wrote:
Oat Soda wrote:
rlee wrote:Maybe we're not talking about the same situation. A fielder's choice is when the batter reaches 1st safely because the fielder has chosen to make a play on another runner when he could have retired the batter.

If someone hits into a double play, they do not reach first safely, so it cannot be a fielder's choice. It's a double play.


What are you talking about? I quoted the exact definition of a fielder's choice straight from the rulebook. If that's not a fielder's choice, what do you call it?


I call it a double play. Have you ever kept score? When a batter hits into a double play, ther is no notation of a FC. You have a FC when there's a man on first and the batter forces him at 2nd, but reaches first safely. Then a FC is designated on the scorecard. He reached first safely BECAUSE the fielder chose to get another baserunner. There is no FC when the batter is retired.


How do you account for the run then? It didn't come from thin air. We know he didn't score on an error. We know he didn't score stealing. We know he didn't score on a hit. That leaves a sac or a fielder's choice.

Look at it this way. Say the ball was hit to 2B who tagged second for the out, then stared down the runner at third to hold him there. The batter reaches first. One out on a fielder's choice. Or, in this case, the FIELDER CHOOSES to get the second out at the expense of a run.

Yes, it's a double play, and yes, it's a fielder's choice. And yes, I've kept score before.
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Postby nuggets » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:22 pm

You know what, I think it should be an RBI. It's often that a ball hit which turns in to the standard DP is initially fielded in a position which would not allow the fielder to make the play at home. If it's a close game and this happens thus putting a team ahead, it's a lot better than not scoring that run. There is no guarantee that by not grounding into a DP, other players will knock the run in.
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:26 pm

I also think it should be an RBI. The batter could do worse than ground into a double play in that situation. If the batter strikes out or pops up, we then have a 1st-and-3rd with one out. If the next player grounds into a double play, ZERO runs are scored. The batter at least put the ball in play, scoring the runner. This should not be undervalued, as scoring one run in an inning is usually a successful inning.
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Postby wrveres » Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:51 am

I am 99.7% positive that it is a fielders choice, and that is why no RBI is given. Had he actually been safe at 1B he would be credited/RBI with a single since you can never assume the double play.
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