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MANNY WANTS OUT..... AGAIN

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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:29 pm

Matthias wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Trot Nixon wrote:
mikegp wrote:Man the Mets are going to be great next year! :-D

C - Piazza
1B - Meincavitch(NO CLUE how to spell it)
2B - Soriano
3B - Wright
SS - Reyes
LF - Manny
CF - Beltran
RF - Floyd


You think the Mets could get Manny w/o giving up Reyes, Wright or Beltran???


Whether they can or can't, they wouldn't. They aren't going to give you those 3 players, even if Manny really is on the block. Get real.


right. because reyes (or any one of those guys, for that matter) is such a superior player to manny. pfftttt....


Are you serious? You're obviously a little in the dark on how trades work. It isn't fantasy baseball. Rarely do you see a superstar for superstar trade. One exception that I can think of off the top of my head is the A-Rod for Soriano trade. Other than that, there aren't too many trades that send one star in exchange for another.

Never once did I say Reyes was a superior player to Manny Ramirez. Manny is one of the greatest hitters of our generation, probably one of the greatest hitters in the history of baseball when it's all said and done. That said, he carries a LUDICROUS contract. Do you really expect a team to pay a top-end prospect like Jose Reyes or David Wright AND pay $20 million a year for a one-dimensional player like Manny? You wouldn't pay that price for PUJOLS or A-ROD, and those two are considered the best players in the game of baseball.

The Red Sox, if trying to trade Manny, would more realistically expect a player like Mike Cameron from the Mets. Not Reyes or Wright. I'm not even going to mention Beltran because even if their contracts were perfectly equal, it is just dumb to expect a team to even consider trading the likes of Carlos Beltran for Manny Ramirez.

Bottom line: If the Red Sox are trying to move Manny, they aren't going to get any superstar players in return, unless they agree to eat some of his salary. Otherwise, they'll get mid-level talent like Cameron, IF that, and save a crapload of money.
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Postby Yoda » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:32 pm

Matthias wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Matthias wrote:
right. because reyes (or any one of those guys, for that matter) is such a superior player to manny. pfftttt....


Not superior right now but Reyes plays a key defensive position and he is 10 years younger and about 10 times cheaper. I wouldn't give up Reyes for Manny and his stupid contract.


manny's only got 3 years left on his deal and is in by no means a twilight year. reyes may turn into something, but all he is so far is an empty promise. if you're not willing to deal that for a first-ballot HoFer in his prime... well... you wont' get the chance to manage a big-league club. until you buy an xbox.


Are you serious? LOL yeah ONLY 3 years at $22,000,000!!! I don't care if he hits 70 HRs, his salary is crippling.

Reyes is making $332,000. You'd have to kill someone to give up Reyes for Manny in my book.
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Postby dyuen87 » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:32 pm

an empty promise?! wow.. i know manny has the power but reyes has incredible speed, a cannon of an arm, cheaper, and younger. i would think that reyes right now has more value for clubs tat are want to win now who have a sight for the future. good thing YOU dont manage a ball club ;-D
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Postby Quadron » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:36 pm

Both Texas and the Mets already have enough offense in their outfield and DH

the yankees on the other hand... would steinbrenner splurge? (when does he not?)

I can imagine putting Manny at DH in NYY.
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Postby Matthias » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:38 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
Rarely do you see a superstar for superstar trade.


Generally, that's because one team is on the selling/development stage of their franchise and the other is looking to cap a final roster because their window of opportunity is closing. You don't trade away your superstar (generally) just when you think you can win it all.

BronXBombers51 wrote:Do you really expect a team to pay a top-end prospect like Jose Reyes or David Wright AND pay $20 million a year for a one-dimensional player like Manny? You wouldn't pay that price for PUJOLS or A-ROD, and those two are considered the best players in the game of baseball.


As you pointed out, this kind of deal WAS done for rodriguez. And I don't think there was ever any sort of mention on how much/any of Manny's contract the Sox would have to eat (which is still $5MM/year and fewer years that Rodriguez's, anyways).

BronXBombers51 wrote:The Red Sox, if trying to trade Manny, would more realistically expect a player like Mike Cameron from the Mets.

Bottom line: If the Red Sox are trying to move Manny, they aren't going to get any superstar players in return, unless they agree to eat some of his salary. Otherwise, they'll get mid-level talent like Cameron, IF that, and save a crapload of money.


Bottom line: the Red Sox would never do this sort of trade.
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Postby LooseCannon » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:38 pm

I don't think the Red Sox would deal Manny......he led them to a Championship.which hadn't happened in forever (exaggeration)...As long as Manny keeps up his production they probably won't give a crap that he's complaining until his contract is up and anyway why would they want to trade him to a New York Team....Willie Randolph probably wouldn't be interested in a guy who b*tches and moans all the time if he has to give up guys who have tons of potential and are not asking that much salary-wise.
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Postby Yoda » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:41 pm

Matthias wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Rarely do you see a superstar for superstar trade.


Generally, that's because one team is on the selling/development stage of their franchise and the other is looking to cap a final roster because their window of opportunity is closing. You don't trade away your superstar (generally) just when you think you can win it all.

BronXBombers51 wrote:Do you really expect a team to pay a top-end prospect like Jose Reyes or David Wright AND pay $20 million a year for a one-dimensional player like Manny? You wouldn't pay that price for PUJOLS or A-ROD, and those two are considered the best players in the game of baseball.


As you pointed out, this kind of deal WAS done for rodriguez. And I don't think there was ever any sort of mention on how much/any of Manny's contract the Sox would have to eat (which is still $5MM/year and fewer years that Rodriguez's, anyways).

BronXBombers51 wrote:The Red Sox, if trying to trade Manny, would more realistically expect a player like Mike Cameron from the Mets.

Bottom line: If the Red Sox are trying to move Manny, they aren't going to get any superstar players in return, unless they agree to eat some of his salary. Otherwise, they'll get mid-level talent like Cameron, IF that, and save a crapload of money.


Bottom line: the Red Sox would never do this sort of trade.


Economics 101. Manny's price tag makes him virtually worthless in real life. No one would be willing to give up anything useful for him and his monster contract. That is why the Red Sox can't trade him not because they don't want to. Period.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:43 pm

Cleveland Steamers wrote:No way the Mets will end up with soriano and Manny. Thats abosultely crazy. The salary between Beltran and Manny would be more than a few small market teams. Throw in the salaries of Pedro, Soriano, Benson, etc and the Mets would be right up there with the Yankees in terms of salary. No chance.

You're crazy. :-D Not that I think either of these players are coming to the Mets but the Mets could take on Manny and Soriano's salary and still be about $70 Million dollars less than the Yankees payroll. Let's say Manny at $20M and Soriano at $10M and the Mets payroll at $105 (I'm rounding high and not even taking into account Piazza's salary being gone next year) equals ~$135M and the Yankees payroll is ~$205M.
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Postby Matthias » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:45 pm

dyuen87 wrote:an empty promise?! wow.. i know manny has the power but reyes has incredible speed, a cannon of an arm, cheaper, and younger. i would think that reyes right now has more value for clubs tat are want to win now who have a sight for the future. good thing YOU dont manage a ball club ;-D


yah. i've been following reyes in the local ny media for the past two seasons and he still hasn't brought it together. a lead-off hitter with an OBP of under .300?? i'm sorry; he has the tools; he has the physical gifts; but until he actually shows something... insane to compare him and manny. or say you would prefer him over manny if your goal is to win now.

but he does have value; which means that his salary is going to jump. i can't find how long he's signed for, but probably not that much longer, and then he wouldn't be such a great $$ value.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:45 pm

Matthias wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Rarely do you see a superstar for superstar trade.


Generally, that's because one team is on the selling/development stage of their franchise and the other is looking to cap a final roster because their window of opportunity is closing. You don't trade away your superstar (generally) just when you think you can win it all.


The Red Sox were 1 game away from going to the World Series in 2003 and put Manny in irrevocable waivers. They weren't going to trade him. They were going to GIVE him away for nothing.

Do you really expect a team to pay a top-end prospect like Jose Reyes or David Wright AND pay $20 million a year for a one-dimensional player like Manny? You wouldn't pay that price for PUJOLS or A-ROD, and those two are considered the best players in the game of baseball.


As you pointed out, this kind of deal WAS done for rodriguez. And I don't think there was ever any sort of mention on how much/any of Manny's contract the Sox would have to eat (which is still $5MM/year and fewer years that Rodriguez's, anyways).


A-Rod was a salary dump more than anything. Texas did get Soriano, who is a top player in the league, but the Rangers DID NOT do the deal to get Soriano. They did it to dump A-Rod's contract. That was the reason for the deal. The same way it would be the reason for Manny's deal. But the Yankees are a different case than everyone else. They don't care about absorbing a $25 million per year contract. Every other team in the league does. That's why A-Rod is a Yankee right now, and not a Red Sock. If teams could just take in huge contracts, Boston would have and A-Rod would be there instead of in NY.

The Red Sox, if trying to trade Manny, would more realistically expect a player like Mike Cameron from the Mets.

Bottom line: If the Red Sox are trying to move Manny, they aren't going to get any superstar players in return, unless they agree to eat some of his salary. Otherwise, they'll get mid-level talent like Cameron, IF that, and save a crapload of money.


Bottom line: the Red Sox would never do this sort of trade.


Oh, but they'll put him on waivers and let anyone take him for free? Anyone including the Yankees? But they won't deal him and his entire crippling salary for a decent player? Oh....ok. ;-7

If the Red Sox ARE going to deal him, and I'm not saying they are even trying, but if they ARE, that's what their going to get, unless they somehow swing that 3-way thing that brings them Soriano, which I highly doubt.
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