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Baseball Strategy Question -- Burnitz bunt on Sunday: Smart?

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Postby nuggets » Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:03 pm

Fool42 wrote:Cubs fans are used to losing. I'd send the guys out there for 6 and bring in whoever I had.


According to the fool, a good manager gives his team the best chance to lose. ;-7
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Postby raiders_umpire » Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:27 pm

personally i thought it was a great call by dusty and imo the right call as well....with it being extra innings, and 1 run being so much more important ..... it was easily the right call to get the runner to 3rd base... put more pressure on the defense and pitcher to be perfect,,,, and there is 9 more ways to score from 3rd then there is from 2nd.....now if it had been the 3rd or 4th innings,,,then i would not have agreed with bunting the runners over.....
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Postby nuggets » Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:33 pm

raiders_umpire wrote:personally i thought it was a great call by dusty and imo the right call as well....with it being extra innings, and 1 run being so much more important ..... it was easily the right call to get the runner to 3rd base... put more pressure on the defense and pitcher to be perfect,,,, and there is 9 more ways to score from 3rd then there is from 2nd.....now if it had been the 3rd or 4th innings,,,then i would not have agreed with bunting the runners over.....


Good points. Cross reference that with this and one can see how any other choice would have been poor. It was a pretty nice bunt too. Burnitz is a good all around player...I'm glad the cubbies have him :-)
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Postby jjigglers » Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:24 pm

raiders_umpire wrote:personally i thought it was a great call by dusty and imo the right call as well....with it being extra innings, and 1 run being so much more important ..... it was easily the right call to get the runner to 3rd base... put more pressure on the defense and pitcher to be perfect,,,, and there is 9 more ways to score from 3rd then there is from 2nd.....now if it had been the 3rd or 4th innings,,,then i would not have agreed with bunting the runners over.....
;-D
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Postby reznorsboy » Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:45 pm

Since when is it not a good play to manufacture a run in extra innings? You do whatever you can to get that runner on third and then bring him home. That is why I love National league baseball, because there is so much strategy involved. In the American league players just go up and swing for the fences in every situation. I think it was a bold and correct move by dusty. I also think it says alot for Burnitz's character that he would lay down the bunt in order to help his team. ;-D

Oh yeah and CUBS WIN!!! CUBS WIN!!!!
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Postby xeifrank » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:06 pm

How many outs?
What inning?
What's the score?
Who are the next three batters?

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Postby Fool42 » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:12 pm

[quote="nuggets"][quote="Fool42"]Cubs fans are used to losing. I'd send the guys out there for 6 and bring in whoever I had.[/quote]

According to the fool, a good manager gives his team the best chance to lose. ;-7[/quote]

Flame if you want but I say don't jeapordize the future of your team to win one game. Wood is toast and Prior is on his way to TJ surgery if he keeps it up. How many titles will the Cubs win then? You claim the had no good RP's. They didn't have a dominating closer but other than that all of th RP's were more than servicable. And I have to ask what good did it do the Cubs to ruin the studs arms for the good of one year? Still no title and now they're studs are gimpy.
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Postby ActionHero » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:35 pm

10th Inning, no outs, tie score
Walker/Lee on 1st, 2nd
Next 3 batters are Burnitz, Ramirez, Barrett

xeifrank wrote:How many outs?
What inning?
What's the score?
Who are the next three batters?

vr, Xei
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Postby ActionHero » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:40 pm

Well the point is that statistically, there is very little difference in runs manufactured by bunting them over to 3rd versus hitting away. That's why I'm saying that I would've preferred to let Burnitz and Aramis hit away.

But I agree with what you're saying about the strategy -- there are so many variables to think about in the NL. Xeifrank is on the right track by asking about the context.

For example, if it was the same situation except that Barry Bonds was at bat, would you ever ask him to lay down a bunt? Doubtful. What if it was Derek Lee? Still probably not. However, if it was Roger Cedeno, he's bunting even if can't spell the word.


reznorsboy wrote:Since when is it not a good play to manufacture a run in extra innings? You do whatever you can to get that runner on third and then bring him home. That is why I love National league baseball, because there is so much strategy involved. In the American league players just go up and swing for the fences in every situation. I think it was a bold and correct move by dusty. I also think it says alot for Burnitz's character that he would lay down the bunt in order to help his team. ;-D

Oh yeah and CUBS WIN!!! CUBS WIN!!!!
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Postby ActionHero » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:48 pm

Well my point is exactly that statistically the numbers are too close.

The only situation Aramis was going to get a walk was the one that Dusty created. Maybe I'm missing your point. :-?

It appears that you're being a little sensitive to Dusty remarks. I'm not criticizing him; I'm second-guessing. There's a difference. I'm also not saying that I'm in the right. I brought this topic up to hear other opinions. I'd be happy to change my mind if somebody could sway me, but so far there hasn't been much fact or logic to convince me of my original stance. So to that point, why do you assume that it was the right move? Because the Cubs won?

[quote="nuggets
Those probabilities %s are too close to mean anything to me other than you have about the same chance either way you go.

Tony was going to walk Aramis either way, so take him out of the equation.

Is it impossible for Dusty to escape unfair criticism even when he makes the right move???[/quote]
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