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Time to cut Lyon

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Time to cut Lyon

Postby Guest » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:29 pm

He blew one last night and hasn't pitched well. I think he's losing his job soon and am going to grab someone else. Anyone else feel the same?
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Postby benjapage » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:46 pm

tough call, man. with pedro still iffy, and fossum iffy and kim having to stick in the rotation for a while...lyon might keep the job. i suppose embree might get a shot, though he's just as susceptible to a good reaming as is lyon. i wouldn't drop him outright. you might want to shop him around.

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Postby benjapage » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:50 pm

oh yeah, and derek lowe and tim wakefield are also iffy. not incidentally, robert person has been the most terrible of all, so i don't see him getting a shot in the foreseeable future.

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Postby Guest » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:57 pm

But he will eventually lose the job, right? So is he worth holding on for the 3 or so saves he'll get before losing the job (if he hasn't lost it already), or would you rather drop him for someone on a worse team who may keep the job all year like Beck (ick)? Also would you be willing to drop him for Morneau or Johan Santana?
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Postby benjapage » Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:04 pm

santana's the best pitcher of the lot, and is getting a couple of starts with reed out. he won't keep the job, unfortunately (despite the fact that he's the twin's best pitcher). meanwhile, the red sox have no clue how long they're going to need kim to keep starting (effectively keeping him out of the closer picture).

lyon will probably lose the job, but nobody knows when. this situation has continued for more than a month, though...so i wouldn't drop him. see if anyone will give you something decent for him.

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Postby jdh » Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:07 pm

Hold on to Lyon until he officially loses the job. Eventually, it's pretty clear that Kim will wind up closing. I think that will happen when Pedro is back to full strength, as they currently have Burkett backing Pedro up, and are calling someone up to take Fossum's start. When Pedro can pitch normally, they will probably get Burkett to take over Kim's slot so Kim can go to the pen. That might be a few weeks though.

Beck is by no means solidified as the closer in SD. Witasick will probably end up taking that job after a few good outings.
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Postby rufus » Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:07 pm

I've been really confused as to why everyone is so fixated on Lyon, and the closing situation more generally.

The problems on the Sox pitching staff are, in order: middle relief, starting pitching, closing. Lyon has been one of the few bright spots, not one of the problems.

Whether he has it in him to be a true, high level, long term closer remains to be seen of course. But in the medium term, Lyon's working out quite well as closer, so they're better off focusing on other areas. And as far as Kim goes, it would seem to make little sense to use him up in the position they're currently having the *least* problems with.
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Postby rufus » Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:12 pm

And for what it's worth (you never know how to take these things) here's the word from management. This is from the current Boston Globe:

"Lyon remains free of criticism from at least one angle. New pitching coach Dave Wallace said the 23-year-old righty still impressed him with ''some real good stuff.'' Manager Grady Little, too, complimented his pitcher.

The first four men Lyon faced in the ninth toted averages of .389, .300, .297, and .330. They'd combined for 49 home runs.

''Brandon Lyon has been doing an outstanding job for us,'' Little said. ''There are just situations that have come up that have kept him from winning those games, but he will get the ball tomorrow in the same situation. We are confident when he goes onto the mound.''"
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Postby jdh » Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:12 pm

It's because Lyon is a terrible closer, with a 1.45 WHIP which is unacceptable for someone closing games. Also, a .262 batting average against is terrible for a closer. He is 6 for 6 in save chances, but whenever the Red Sox have brought him in late in close games to hold a tie, he has flopped, costing them 3 games already. They need someone reliable, Lyon is total garbage.
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Postby rufus » Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:14 pm

Even if that is true JDH, which I would dispute, it doesn't address my point. Which is that middle relief (especially) and starting pitching have cost them far more games.
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