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The ideal Roto scoring categories?

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Postby thehat » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:02 am

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 5x5 works fine for the masses. Start adding the saber categories and it would be a disaster.

Don't get me wrong, if you're playing in a league that can be filled with hardcore owners who live and die with the game, that's fine. But in terms of widespread appeal, fuggetaboutit.
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Postby BobbyRoberto » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:07 am

The league I've been in for a few years has always been a little bit different from the traditional 5X5. This year, we are using R, HR, RBI, Net-Steals, OBP, and SLG. All of these categories are well-liked. Using Net-Steals keeps that category pretty close and it's funny to see someone put up a -4 in the steals category for the week.

In pitching, we're using Wins, Net-Saves, Holds, K/BB, ERA, and WHIP. Everyone seems to like K/BB, ERA, and WHIP. Wins is a crap-shoot and you get some complaining when a guy loses a 1-0 game, but that's expected. The HUGE problem is using Holds and Net-Saves because when a middle reliever comes in to get a hold and lets the game get tied, it counts against your team in the Net-Saves category, so you get dinged twice. Some of the top Holds guys have quite a few blown saves (Juan Rincon--15 holds, 5 blown saves). We will never use Holds again, it's just way too frustrating. Another example is a pitcher who comes into a game with a 1-run lead, gets an out, then gives up a triple. The next pitcher comes in and gets the next two batters, but allows the run to score. The pitcher who put the runner on third with one out will get a hold, the other guy gets a blown save. Holds is a lame category.
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Postby Matthias » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:28 am

thehat wrote:If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 5x5 works fine for the masses. Start adding the saber categories and it would be a disaster.

Don't get me wrong, if you're playing in a league that can be filled with hardcore owners who live and die with the game, that's fine. But in terms of widespread appeal, fuggetaboutit.


i try to believe that it is possible to raise up the general awareness of things, rather than cater to how low we believe things are. but that's just me. (and besides, there's an intuitive nature which is lost in stat-crunching that becomes more accessible as you more perfectly model the game. why do you draft a player? because ... he's good).
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Postby Oat Soda » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:18 am

I like the idea of a combination H2H-Roto league if only for the ratios. We use OBP, WHIP and ERA in my league, and by the All-Star break, those cats are pretty much set by the laws of mathematics. You don't have much room for improvement.

My football league is a kind of hybrid deal where we play head-to-head each week, but also accumlate points. At the end of the year there are payoffs for the top 5 in H2H and the top 5 in overall points (points getting the bigger cut of the pot).

An H2H-roto split rewards both the owners who recognize and ride streaks with those who can put together good lineups for six months.

Of course, I also want my baseball league to go to auction instead of draft, but that's impossible.
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:12 am

I like the 6x6 we use which adds OPS for hitters and holds for pitchers. It balances the categories so that you have 4 counting stats and 2 rate stats for both pitchers and hitters. OPS is easy to calculate and rewards what's really important in baseball. Holds forces you to construct a staff that more closely resembles a real pitching staff.
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Postby swyck » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:22 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:I like the 6x6 we use which adds OPS for hitters and holds for pitchers. It balances the categories so that you have 4 counting stats and 2 rate stats for both pitchers and hitters. OPS is easy to calculate and rewards what's really important in baseball. Holds forces you to construct a staff that more closely resembles a real pitching staff.


I agree with this 6x6 as being a good mix.

OPS has always been my favorite 'new' hitting cat. Sure it adds on from some of the other cats, but I think of it as more of an overall indicator of what a player is doing, and is pretty easy to follow, IMO.

Holds I like since it adds value to an important team role. However, those MR's will take roster spots, so I'd also add at least an RP and a P over the standard roster size to reflect that.

For a possible expansion to 7x7, I'd add some negative stats -- K's for hitters, and HR's for pitchers. This way you can't just ignore some flaws in a players game.

Really, though I'm fine with the 5x5 for a standard Roto. Kind of like a baseline league. I'd look at additional cats in deeper H2H leagues, or maybe in hybrid h2h/roto some have talked about.
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Postby proninja » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:23 am

I really like our 6x6 league of

HR, R, RBI, SB, OBP, SLG

W, Sv, ERA, WHIP, K, HLD


Personally, the only thing I don't like about holds is how unpredictable it seems from year to year, but you could even make an argument over that being a positive since you've got to stay active on the wire.
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