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Bernie - retire his number?

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Bernie: Retire his number?

Yes
9
64%
No
5
36%
 
Total votes : 14

Postby blankman » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:05 am

MMoNeY24 wrote:
davidmarver wrote:Bernie, Jeter, and Pettitte are the three active players whose numbers I would retire if I were in the Yankees front office. Bernie and Jeter were lineup rocks while Pettitte's postseason heroics helped the team win 4 championships. I vote yes.


Too bad DARRELL MAY got Pettitte's number. :-P

I guess it could still be retired, but I doubt it if they just gave it away to a nobody like that.


I'd like to see it, but I just don't think Pettitte's time with the Yankees will end up being long enough for that to happen. If his years with the team had been at the opposite end of his career (he started with another team, then had 8 or so seasons for the Yanks and then retired with the Yankees, he'd have a much better shot of that happening IMO).
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:24 am

blankman wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Bernie holds a bunch of postseason HR records. Obviously the opportunity has to be there but he got it done.

And that he's played in one -- and in some cases two -- more rounds of the post season than some of the other greats. That in no way takes away from his performance, just that you have to take some of those counting stats from the post season with a grain of salt.
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Postby blankman » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:30 am

SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:
blankman wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Bernie holds a bunch of postseason HR records. Obviously the opportunity has to be there but he got it done.

And that he's played in one -- and in some cases two -- more rounds of the post season than some of the other greats. That in no way takes away from his performance, just that you have to take some of those counting stats from the post season with a grain of salt.


Thats what I said :-?
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:41 am

blankman wrote:Thats what I said :-?

Sorry, little cross-up there then. I thought you were referring to the number of times the Yankees made the post season and made deep runs. :-D I appologize. O:-)
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Postby Arlo » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:00 pm

Looks like I'll be in the minority here: I don't think Bernie's number ought to be retired. That's no knock on the guy - he was a terrific player and tends to get underrated by a lot of folks. I just think retired numbers should be reserved for the true legends. Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig? Yes. Guidry? No. Williams? No, as good as he is.
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Postby blankman » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:21 pm

Arlo wrote:Looks like I'll be in the minority here: I don't think Bernie's number ought to be retired. That's no knock on the guy - he was a terrific player and tends to get underrated by a lot of folks. I just think retired numbers should be reserved for the true legends. Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig? Yes. Guidry? No. Williams? No, as good as he is.


Bernie's Yankee numbers are up there with the Yankee greats who've had their numbers retired.

6th in games, 5th in runs, 5th in hits (just behind Dimaggio), 4th in doubles (ahead of Dimaggio), 6th in HR, 7th in RBI, 6th in TB, 4th in walks, 3rd in intentional walks. A true Yankee.
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Postby dimaggio5 » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:24 pm

I love Bernie who's a real class act however, I think his number should not be retired. As a Yankee, Bernie's production is very good. However, when considering the retirement of numbers, there are just too many other Yankees from the team's history for him to compete against. Guidry and Gossage come to mind from the 70's and even Randolph too. From the not too distant 90's O'niell. Just my opinion but, the only current Yankees worthy of this honor are Jeter and Rivera. However, I'm not so sure how the Yanks will handle 42 since this was Jackie Robinson's number and I know MLB retired that number for all the teams. Not sure if the Yanks can retire that number for Rivera. Besides, if the Yanks keep retiring numbers, it won;t be long before they have to start recycling them due to jersey shortages.
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Postby blankman » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:37 pm

I'm sure the Yankees will retire 42 in Rivera's name. Perhaps they will show it for Jackie too, but they will undoubtably add 42 to the list in Mariano's name.
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Postby WharfRat » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:19 pm

dimaggio5 wrote:I love Bernie who's a real class act however, I think his number should not be retired. As a Yankee, Bernie's production is very good. However, when considering the retirement of numbers, there are just too many other Yankees from the team's history for him to compete against. Guidry and Gossage come to mind from the 70's and even Randolph too. From the not too distant 90's O'niell. Just my opinion but, the only current Yankees worthy of this honor are Jeter and Rivera. However, I'm not so sure how the Yanks will handle 42 since this was Jackie Robinson's number and I know MLB retired that number for all the teams. Not sure if the Yanks can retire that number for Rivera. Besides, if the Yanks keep retiring numbers, it won;t be long before they have to start recycling them due to jersey shortages.


To me, this sounds like Bernie's getting penalized for playing for the most storied franchise in the world. I agree that he's not nearly as good as your Hall of Famers from the past, but statistically, as has been pointed out, he does stack up well against many of those other players. And if he had done exactly the same thing for another team, his numbers might be even more impressive and important for that ballclub, although I haven't actually done a comparison. But having the greatest collection of past players doesn't render current players less important, or less talented.

While statistics are helpful in comparing the past, don't rule out the importance he's had for THIS team, and THESE fans, in THIS era. He played centerfield and generally batted in the heart of the order for a four-time champion, a modern dynasty in every sense of the word. Let's face it, Jeter wouldn't be nearly as beloved or hallowed or whatever by you and I if the Yankees hadn't had those magical years (not to say we wouldn't like him; just that I think people wouldn't have developed this almost mythic status for him). And I think Bernie ought to reap the reward for those victories too.

quote wrote: Looks like I'll be in the minority here: I don't think Bernie's number ought to be retired. That's no knock on the guy - he was a terrific player and tends to get underrated by a lot of folks. I just think retired numbers should be reserved for the true legends. Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig? Yes. Guidry? No. Williams? No, as good as he is.


What do you think of Mattingly's number being retired? He's a Yankee icon, but he had the opposite career as Bernie: A sharp fall after a handful of great years, whereas Bernie had a longer climb and a lower but longer plateau. Plus, Mattingly won zilch. With retired numbers, I think longevity is definitely worth something. What about a guy like Biggio? He's a great Astro but not an all-time great; should his number be retired? And if the Astros had the history of the Yankees, and Biggio WASN'T a leader in all those categories, should he still be retired? I think with guys like Biggio or Bernie, who aren't all-time greats, longevity and relevance are reasons for retiring their numbers. Bernie is IDENTIFIED with the Yanks, just like Biggio is an Astro all the way.

RE: #42. The Yankees already have two #8s retired (for Yogi and Dickey, correct?). Why not do the same for Mo Riv and Jackie?
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:15 am

Maybe Bernie isn't a legend like Ruth or Mantle but they retired Guidry and Mattingly and Bernie can definately stack up with those two. If you're going to expand and retire guys like that, you HAVE to retire Bernie's number.

I also was pretty certain thay were going to retire 22 for Clemens before he decided to come back for Houston, and I guess it's still possible. Someone's going to retire his number, anyway. I also thought O'Neill had an outside shot, not based on the numbers, just the great Yankee that he was.
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