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Worst player in baseball

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Postby bigh0rt » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:53 pm

Mercer Boy wrote:No love for Lima Time?

I thought he was the consensus worst player in baseball. :-?


That's a good point, Lima needs to crack this list.
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:22 pm

ocmusicjunkie wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:For a team, yes, the game is 50/50. For a player, it is not. You cannot say hitting and defense are 50/50 for both a left fielder and a catcher. One is involved in an huge number more defensive plays than the other. Only one player is involved in defending every potential scoring play. Also, the disparity between a great hitting catcher and a poor hitting catcher is not nearly as great as at other positions.


In fact, hitting is MORE than 50% of the game for every position player, because the defensive side of the game is heavily determined by pitching. It's not simply the number of plays one is involved in, but the impact those plays have on the outcome of the game, and the influence the player has on those plays. Touches does not equal importance. To your point on variance, catching the pitch, which even the worst catcher does 99.5 percent of the time, varies too little for it to be much of an important factor.

Just look at a measure like win shares. Of the top ten catchers in total win shares, just 3 derive the majority of those win shares from fielding. Of the top 30, just 10 get the majority of their value from fielding. On average, those top ten have 5.5 win shares from batting, 3.5 from fielding, for a 60/40 weight in favor of their offensive value.
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Postby davidmarver » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:24 pm

Hey GotoWar...do you have a website that posts win shares for free? Thanks ;-D
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:28 pm

davidmarver wrote:Hey GotoWar...do you have a website that posts win shares for free? Thanks ;-D


Yeah, Hardball Times, one of my favorites:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main


Good stats on projected OPS there, too, a new measure that mimics DIPS for hitters (trying to project who's riding a lucky streak, versus who is likely to continue performing).
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Re: Worst player in baseball

Postby TheYanks04 » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:30 pm

Strasil42 wrote:http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3740584

Tony womack was voted the worst player in baseball with a close victory over Cristian Guzman.


Can't argue with that. Womack got my vote. Only Clueless Brian thinks differently.

Dishonorable mentions to:

Miguel Olivo
Enrique Wilson
Felix Heredia
Jose Offerman
B. Daubach
Eric Milton (the walking gas can)
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Postby davidmarver » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:33 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
davidmarver wrote:Hey GotoWar...do you have a website that posts win shares for free? Thanks ;-D


Yeah, Hardball Times, one of my favorites:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main


Good stats on projected OPS there, too, a new measure that mimics DIPS for hitters (trying to project who's riding a lucky streak, versus who is likely to continue performing).

Much thanks ;-D
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Postby Kingctb27 » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:36 pm

No love for John Rocker? Maybe he doesn't qualify any longer. I think Mark Bellhorn should be in this conversation as well.

But, Eric Milton is #1 on my list.
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Postby Kingctb27 » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:37 pm

Another guy is Shaun Estes. :-o :-o :-o
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Postby TheYanks04 » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:41 pm

Womack is worse...Tony "WO do I blow" mack kills you every day not one in 5. No power, no glove, K's a lot, does not walk, can't even bunt. Guzman is close in inepitude though.
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Postby Lime » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:44 pm

Hinske got screwed. :-[
Last edited by Lime on Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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