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Proof That Having Good Closers are Important

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Proof That Having Good Closers are Important

Postby YankFan51 » Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:25 am

Look what these useless f'n closers did to my ERA and WHIP
RP DeJean, Mike (RP-Mil) RP Bos Final 1.0 0 1 0 1 18.00 3.00
P Borowski, Joe (RP-ChC) P NYY Final 1.0 0 0 0 1 9.00 3.00
P Politte, Cliff (RP-Tor) P @Cin Final 0.1 0 1 0 1 108.00 18.00
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Postby sinicalypse » Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:32 am

i totally agree. closers are a pretty nifty area i ndrafts... i usually strategize to get two bonafide stud closers, then try to acquire the lesser ones... loopers, dejeans, julios, etc... sure they're more likely to get lit up, end up with a 3.00-4.50 era, but saves are saves are saves... generally, i think if you can focus on drafting solid starters who will keep you in the wins/ERA races, then you can always turn around and find these garbage closers to nab anywhere from 3-30 saves apiece, depending on their tenures... if you can withstand these blows, i still think that their saves outweigh their downsides.

politte has 9 saves. rocky biddle has 15. i guarantee these guys were undrafted... if someone spent high for smoltz, they've got about 20 saves as it is. if you got a keith foulke cheaper and later, then maybe a pitcher like a woody williams, randy wolf, etc... with an astute eye and a quick trigger finger... a combo of foulke and the two garbage guys is probably going to beat smoltz plus one, unless they got gagne or benitez... which is unlikely since drafting smoltz usually starts a slight chain reaction for closers, just to prevent someone from getting two top guys early and ensure that the saves race is basically over by mid-june.
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Postby DGroundhog » Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:36 am

Ouch. You're toast in a H2H matchup, but if it's roto it only will raise your ERA by about .05 from what it would have normally been by the end of the year.

I did the math on it once, but I'm not about to do it again.

Totally sucks though having to work for a month picking and choosing starts trying to get that ERA back down.
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* Steroid induced record
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Postby sinicalypse » Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:42 am

oh quickly, here's my short list of "stud" closers going into this year, obviously, i failed with some pretty bigtime:

smoltz, gagne, mesa, koch, foulke hoffman, mariano rivera.

next tier: ugy urbina, armando benitez,

so in my leagues, my saves cores started off mesa/koch, foulke/rivera, mesa/julio.

i figured that mesa was a lock for 40, and koch would be a lock for 40 as well. turns out i was wrong... but thats the general strategy. i'm generally in the top 3 or 4 slots in saves in all three leagues with different closer corps:

1) koch, mesa, biddle (ayala for backup) - 37 saves, 4th place
2) foulke, rivera, julio, looper, jimenez - 60 saves, tied 1st
3) mesa, julio, german, ayala (if he closes) - 44 saves, tied 1st

i had macdougal in leagues 2 and 3, but traded him while he was hot for other parts. the mac for matsui trade in league 2 came right whe nmatsui started slumping hard... but i dropped for edgar. macdougal teamed up with gil meche and brett myers to get my javvy vazquez in league #3.

thanks for listening to me babble.
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Postby jdh » Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:50 am

I got slammed hard by closers today too. Here is my line:

Jimenez: 1 IP, 3 H, 1 BB, 2 ER, 0K, 18.00 ERA, 4.00 WHIP
Kim: 2 IP, 5 H, 0 BB, 2K, 4 ER, 18.00 ERA, 2.50 WHIP
Politte: 0.1 IP, 4 H, 1 BB, 1K, 4 ER, 108.00 ERA, 18.00 WHIP, LOSS

Jimenez especially scares me having to pitch at Coors. Even though I need the saves, I'm half tempted to bench him at home.
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Postby Redriot » Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:53 am

Wow Sin, you sure missed the ball on Koch and Mesa before the season started. I could see Koch's implosion coming a mile away, but I must admit, I was sold on the Phillies' potential and made active efforts to acquire Mesa. :-C
Other than that, I agree with your strategy, two reliable very good closers, and then whomever you can get in the bottom of the draft or off waivers. For my best team my two reliable closers are Foulke and Guardado, and they've done nothing but help my team out. The only tricky thing is getting cheap closers who can help saves without hurting everything else too much. A good example of guys that warrant dropping even though they rack up saves is Mike Williams or Jiminez. I'm not sure the extra 3-4 saves they get per week is worth the +1 on the overall team ERA each week either.
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Postby jdh » Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:59 am

OK, there is no way you can consider Jose Mesa to be a stud closer; he is way worse than Benitez or Urbina and is basically on the verge of losing his closing job to Rheal Cormier. Mesa is at best a middle of the pack closer, and he had the worst save conversion rate and most blown saves last year.

Here is how I would rank the closers currently:

Elite:
Smoltz
Gagne
Foulke
Wagner
Percival
Guardado
Benitez

Upper tier:
Sasaki
Kim
Urbina
Koch
Isringhausen

Mid tier:
Mantei
Mesa
Looper
Williamson
Williams
Worrell
Jimenez

Low end:
Politte
Julio
Carter
MacDougal
Baez
German
Biddle
DeJean
Beck
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Postby Redriot » Sun Jun 08, 2003 3:59 am

I agree with you JDH, but I think that Sin's list was based on predictions BEFORE the season. Also, Koch as an upper tier closer? Man, I just don't see it, I'd be more comfortable with Juan Acevado closing my games!
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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Jun 08, 2003 4:35 am

Closers are the most erratic guys in bb. Even top guys like Benitez have struggled. There are only 2 studs right now, Gagne and Smoltz.
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Postby The Jury » Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:16 pm

It's highly unimportant to have good closers in a head to head league. The only thing that really hurts is to have bad relievers such as Julio, Escobar, Politte, and DeJean and others just because they get saves. If you use Dotel, Hawkins, and Donnelly instead of bad closers, you'll do fine. Who cares about one unpredictable category when you could have lights out relievers instead. Dudes if you dont have Gagne, Smoltz, Rivera, Foulke, etc. don't toy around crap, go out and pick up some wicked relievers who will help all across the board in ERA, WHIP, K, and such.
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