Lawton traded soon? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Lawton traded soon?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby AT » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:19 pm

The price for Pavano was dictated by the signing of Kris Benson by the Mets to start the free agent period of pitcher signings since he was the first one signed, his contract dictated the market. The NL/AL league switch isn't what has ruined Pavano. His velocity is down 3-5mph on his fastball and he has been getting hit because of it. That's something that could not have been predicted with any semblance of confidence before the season started and when you have a guy who comes off a season at age 29 where he is 18-5, throws 220 innings with an ERA of 3.00 and a WHIP of 1.17 after a year where he finished off a decent season with tremendous starts in the playoffs, one of which in your stadium against your club, what did you think he should've been paid?
Image
AT
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3920
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: On Parole

Postby AT » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:21 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Atrophying Testicles wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:
TheYanks04 wrote:Yanks would be nuts to trade Duncan for Lawton. Lawton is not even someone you can play regularly in the OF as he has had problems with his knees if memory serves me right.


I completely agree. I just wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility for the Yanks to make a move that might be considered "nuts."


I'm sorry but when you say 1 year wonders like Wright and Pavano you're using hindsight with Pavano. He was widely regarded by baseball people to be the best pitcher on the market in the off season and he not only won 18 games last year he has had solid postseason success so don't go telling me that the Pavano signing was stupid at the time. Yes it looks bad now but it was a good move at the time. I wouldn't mind signing Lawton because he is solid offensively but I don't think he is necessarily the answer and I'd rather have a guy with better defense.


I can honestly say I thought it was a stupid signing since the day the deal was done. I understand "baseball people" thought he was the best pitcher on the market, and I won't argue that at all, it just goes to show how weak the pitching market was this past offseason. Other than Pedro of course.

He had one good season. ONE. I'm not saying he's not a solid 4th or 5th starter, because he certainly is. He had good win numbers and ERA last year, but he was never a dominating-type pitcher. And maybe he did have some success in the postseason, but it's not like he's started 20 games in the playoffs or anything. I'm just saying he's worth nowhere near $10M a year.

All I can say is that I was pissed when I heard the Mariners were "wooing" him, and I was so pumped when he took the Yankees offer over Seattle's. In that respect, I do think it was a "stupid" signing.


Yeah Pavano was definitely thought of as a good 4th or 5th starter before this season started. You hit the nail right on the head there. That is complete and utter BS. He was thought to be a 2 or a 3 and not just by the Yankees, or by baseball people, or by whoever. By virtually everyone.
Image
AT
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3920
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: On Parole

Postby stumpak » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:30 pm

The Pavano signing was widely mocked and reviled on this message board at the time it happened by both Yanks fans and non-Yanks fans. I don't think that it is fair to say taht no one saw it coming that Pavano was a one-year wonder.

The Womack signed was equally negatively recieved. Quite frankly, no one should be surprised that the Yanks are having the problems they have having since it was blatantly obvious that the off-season moves they were making were wrong-headed at the time they were making them.
stumpak
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 2729
Joined: 9 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Washington, DC

Postby uucrook3d » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:30 pm

including last year, pavano had two years with 30+ starts. the first he was 12-13. the second was last year. his best record before last year was 8-4. face it. he was a flash in the pan and this year is more on par with his career averages.
uucrook3d
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1552
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: ESPN Radio in Nashville

Postby Big Pimpin » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:33 pm

Yeah the career 57-58 record with a 4.20+ ERA, 1.30+ WHIP, and .270+ BAA coming into this season just SCREAMS 2nd or 3rd starter. Whatever dude. He had one good season, that's it.

I'm not here to argue that the market wasn't distorted by teams paying too much for guys like Benson, Lieber, and Milton, it certainly was. But you'd think at some point you'd have to look at a guy and say "the market may say you're worth $10M a year, but you are most certainly NOT worth $10M a year, we'll pass."

Sure he was considered the best at a weak position, but I still contend it was a stupid signing then, and it's a stupid signing now.
Big Pimpin
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13710
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Building a metric. And being ignorable and stupid.

Postby AT » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:39 pm

Well what is it, Pavano's contract was too rich or he was predicted to have a terrible year this year because he was a 1 year wonder last year. Or are we saying he's a 1 year wonder now and using that to back up the fact we said earlier that the Yanks were overpaying? Because with the market paying Benson 3yrs 23+ (been decent this year), Odalis Perez 3yrs 24 million (been hurt this year, finally coming back), Clement 3yrs 25.5, the Yankees paid Pavano 39.5 over 4 years. Now tell me which one of those 4 guys have had any postseason success. Pavano. Pavano was coming off the best season of those 4 guys and he had the most post season success as well as success in Yankee Stadium in the post season so I don't think it's that much of a reach to pay him more than the other 3 got by 1-2 million more per year and the fact that he is 29 shouldn't stop them from giving him the 4th year on his contract. If Pavano were throwing 93-94 like he was last year we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The Yankees gave Pavano fair market value and given the season he had last year and the postseason success he had combined with his age, he deserved that contract and would've gotten it elsewhere if the Yanks didn't give it to him.

Jaret Wright = Abortion and they should've picked up Lieber's option instead of signing him. You want a flash in the pan 1 year wonder who got more than he should have for 1 good year? There's your answer.
Image
AT
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3920
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: On Parole

Postby AT » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:40 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:Yeah the career 57-58 record with a 4.20+ ERA, 1.30+ WHIP, and .270+ BAA coming into this season just SCREAMS 2nd or 3rd starter. Whatever dude. He had one good season, that's it.

I'm not here to argue that the market wasn't distorted by teams paying too much for guys like Benson, Lieber, and Milton, it certainly was. But you'd think at some point you'd have to look at a guy and say "the market may say you're worth $10M a year, but you are most certainly NOT worth $10M a year, we'll pass."

Sure he was considered the best at a weak position, but I still contend it was a stupid signing then, and it's a stupid signing now.


I suppose the laws of supply and demand are lost on anyone who agrees with you and disagrees with me?
Image
AT
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3920
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: On Parole

Postby wrveres » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:40 pm

so the gist of the Lawton trade thread is ...


Yankees ...

Yankees ..

Yankees ..

Yankees ...

Yankees ..

Yankees ..

Yankees ...

Yankees ..

Yankees ..

Yankees ...

Yankees ..

Yankees ..


Go figure .. :-o
25                "Love the Padres"
Rafael

Dodgers FAIL|Mets FAIL|Canada FAIL
wrveres
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe Musketeer
Posts: 31773
(Past Year: 758)
Joined: 2 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby uucrook3d » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:48 pm

actually AT by your definition wright was just as good of a signing as pavano.

he had a good first playoff opinion- 3-0 in '97 w/ indians
last year- 15-8 with great era.

how are these two below-averag flash in the pan pitchers any different than each other?
uucrook3d
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1552
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: ESPN Radio in Nashville

Postby AT » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:25 pm

Yeah Wright looked great 8 years ago in the playoffs when he was 22 before how many arm injuries and how many disastrous seasons? Good point, they're the same.
Image
AT
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3920
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: On Parole

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Saturday, Aug. 23
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Chi White Sox at NY Yankees
(1:05 pm)
Tampa Bay at Toronto
(1:07 pm)
Detroit at Minnesota
(1:10 pm)
Seattle at Boston
(1:35 pm)
Baltimore at Chi Cubs
(2:20 pm)
San Francisco at Washington
(4:05 pm)
Houston at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
St. Louis at Philadelphia
(7:05 pm)
Pittsburgh at Milwaukee
(7:10 pm)
Atlanta at Cincinnati
(7:10 pm)
San Diego at Arizona
(8:10 pm)
Miami at Colorado
(8:10 pm)
Detroit at Minnesota
(8:10 pm)
Kansas City at Texas
(8:25 pm)
LA Angels at Oakland
(9:05 pm)
NY Mets at LA Dodgers
(9:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact