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Unit pitching on 3 days rest

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Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:28 pm

bigh0rt wrote:You didn't answer my question. Does everybody not meeting your criteria suck? If so, that's fine. We just have different books, then, on what we consider suck and what doesn't suck. So long as you stay consistant.

You mention Halladay and Clemens as your test subjects to measure against Unit. I figured I'd check out on their %s compared with Unit's, and based on these two numbers alone, they've been about twice as effective as he has B-) (despite Clemens only matching Unit's win total; but that's a different thread)

Recap - Unit: 35/47%

Halladay:

72% of his starts this year with 2 or less ER.

83% of his starts have gone 7.0 IP or more, which is not just a measure of him pitching better than Unit, though that certainly comes into play. Being 14 years younger and having a bullpen considerably worse than Johnson must be taken into account.



Clemens:

83% of his starts this year with 2 or less ER.

72% of his starts this year have gone 7.0 IP or more.



Considerably better than Johnson, admitted. I wouldn't have taken the time to look up the numbers if I didn't have a point, though. My statement patience is a virtue holds true, though. If you'd looked at the numbers, you may have picked it up, but now maybe you'll go check it out. What was the last year ol' Unit carried a higher ERA in the second half than in the first? You may be surprised at the answer. So yes, patience is a virtue. I'm not saying three years patience like you ask the average fan; we've already learned that with Yankee fans (stereotypically, and clearly you BronxBombers, based on your last post alone, can't be bothered with that) want their immediate fix (and there's nothing wrong with that, either), so all I'm saying is, don't go making stupid claims (yes, in my opinion, they are stupid claims) like Randy Johnson sucks after one half of average baseball. He's one of the most dominant pitchers baseball has ever seen, period. To claim anything else is ignorance, and nothing more. Be disappointed with his performance so far, and the dropoff from his career averages, go ahead, just don't get all mellow dramatic and exaggerate. All I'm asking.


Your question? If the pitcher doesn't meet my criteria and he's making 16 million dollars, yes, he does suck, and severely. I'd have no problem with RJ's numbers if he was brought in to be our fourth starter, for 5 million a year. He's supposed to be the best pitcher in baseball, that garbage he's thrown up there does not meet my criteria.

I didn't need to see the numbers to tell you Halladay and Clemens have kicked Johnson's ass this year. It's obvious. While those two dominate like Hall of Fame pitchers, Johnson looks like a rookie. Where'd the big bad Randy go? He was alive and kicking 10 months ago. He was the best pitcher in baseball.

I am not in favor of quick fixes. I would rather the Yankees be young and be good for years to come rather than get old superstars to win, then retire, then have to build all over again.

BUT, the Yankees chose the path of quick fixes, and the win now mentality. So when they go get Randy Johnson, a 41 year old pitcher who has dominated the game for 15 years, and they put 200 million dollars into the team, yes, I do expect them to win NOW. If the guy was 28 years old, I'd have patience. He's 41. He's not some young kid trying to make a name for himself. He's 1 of the 2 greatest left-handed pitchers in THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL. The performances he's given thus far this year are unacceptable.

I'm not saying Randy Johnson always has sucked or will suck forever. I'm saying right now, he SUCKS. That is the truth. With the New York Yankees, Randy Johnson has sucked. That does not take away from his HoF career, or the fact that he's one of the greatest pitchers ever. He just plainly has been bad this year. That's what my original statement said. I don't know where you can pull from that that I'm attacking his career numbers. They are amazing. But he's been bad in New York and that's the bottom line. I'm not being ignorant or exaggerating. He has not done his job this year. And because of it, the Yankees may miss the postseason for the first time in a decade.
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Postby Rirruto » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:55 pm

The truth of the matter is that you have to judge Randy by his expectations and by his standards, not anybody else's. And when you do that, I think it's pretty safe to say that he has sucked. His numbers might be respectable for many other pitchers but not for him.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:07 pm

Rirruto wrote:The truth of the matter is that you have to judge Randy by his expectations and by his standards, not anybody else's. And when you do that, I think it's pretty safe to say that he has sucked. His numbers might be respectable for many other pitchers but not for him.


Exactly.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:17 pm

It is the Cashman touch.

Brian Cashman and Lou Piniella are locked in a room. Nothing is in the room except for one vending machine, a desk, and a 2 computer terminals. On the desk is a note that reads:

"The first of you to answer 3 pitching questions correctly each day will be dispensed food from the vending machine. The other will starve. This will continue until one of you wins 3 days. Any attempt to share food or share answers and you will both starve. Should both of you fail to answer 3 questions correctly each day, you will both starve. This is being done to save our ballclubs."

Signed:
NY Yankee Fans, TB Devil Ray Fans and Travis Harper




We all know what the result will be.
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Postby uucrook3d » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:55 pm

#1-- i completely agree with rirruto. johnson has sucked compared to his expected numbers.

#2-- just fyi for yanks 04... harper has done quite well since his schallacking by the yanks.

5ip 2h 0r 0er 0bb 2k

so he wasnt ruined afterall ;-)
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Postby AT » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:09 pm

Johnson has obviously not lived up to expectations and except for a few bright spots has looked bad to say the least. However, the guy is an immortal and one of the best of all time so I think we need to give him a bit of a break here. He was brought in to be terrific but more than anything he was brought in to win games single handedly in the playoffs. His ability to do that for the Yankees has not been tested yet and until I see what he has in September during a pennant chase and/or during the playoffs I'm going to give him some slack.

And all this Yankee loyalty and good fan or not business? Don't go there at me.
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Postby Ender » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:18 pm

Take out the two bad starts and he has a 3.38 ERA on the year, more K's than IP and a WHIP under 1.15 which is more or less what you should expect from a pitcher moving from one of the weakest divisions in baseball in the NL to the strongest in baseball in the AL. Add in the fact he pitched through an injury and the yankees having a terrible defense and I just think people are going a bit too far with how bad Johnson has been.

I couldn't even begin to tell you what happened in those two bad starts, I know for one of them the theory was his back was acting up and the fact a second one happened so soon after the first makes me think he may end up on the DL, but he simply has not pitched nearly as bad on the year as people think he has.
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Postby Octavian » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:11 pm

Sure looked awful today...

...oh wait. :-?
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:21 pm

SominaDei wrote:Sure looked awful today...

...oh wait. :-?


What's your point? He looked good today. Ok. He looked like garbage last time. Ok. I'm glad he was good today. I hope he keeps it up and doesn't revert to the trash he's been lately.
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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:11 pm

uucrook3d wrote:#1-- i completely agree with rirruto. johnson has sucked compared to his expected numbers.

#2-- just fyi for yanks 04... harper has done quite well since his schallacking by the yanks.

5ip 2h 0r 0er 0bb 2k

so he wasnt ruined afterall ;-)


Shhh. You forget that the only people who know how to manage players resides on these boards and not the actual managers and general managers. ;-D

And Johnson has not lived up to expectations - that is safe to say. Whether he has "sucked" or not depends on your definition. I would classify him as a disappointment. But today helps, and now he'll be able to go Sunday and then Friday. Torre knows that for the Yanks to make a run, RJ will have to lead the way. Getting him out there as many times as he can will only help - provided RJ pitches the way he was expected to when he came to NY.
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