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Unit pitching on 3 days rest

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Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:48 pm

SominaDei wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:He can't suck any worse than he did on 5 days rest so what the hell?


What? Yes he can. He hasn't sucked, he's been human. Unit is normally off the charts, and now he's not throwing like he's a machine and he sucks? Take that Yankee Pride banner down. :-t


Yes, Unit sucks. Right now.

He's getting paid 16 million a year to go out there and give up 8 runs to the Tigers? To get beat by the Royals? To get dusted by the Devil Rays?

Give me a break. Johnson has nothing to do with my sig. My sig represents the true Yankees, RJ is not one yet.
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Postby Octavian » Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:54 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
SominaDei wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:He can't suck any worse than he did on 5 days rest so what the hell?


What? Yes he can. He hasn't sucked, he's been human. Unit is normally off the charts, and now he's not throwing like he's a machine and he sucks? Take that Yankee Pride banner down. :-t


Yes, Unit sucks. Right now.

He's getting paid 16 million a year to go out there and give up 8 runs to the Tigers? To get beat by the Royals? To get dusted by the Devil Rays?

Give me a break. Johnson has nothing to do with my sig. My sig represents the true Yankees, RJ is not one yet.


You're probably one of the people who booed Mo when he blew it earlier in the year, aren't you... don't lie.

Give you a break? Give me a break chief, Unit doesn't suck and he doesn't suck... right now. Is he living up to his contract? Absolutely not. But to say he sucks is completely false. Before his blips against the Rays and the Tigers recently, he'd allowed only 5 runs or less in each of his previous starts. The KC business? No run support. He allowed three bloody runs in eight innings and lost the game, not his fault. In fact, his only two BAD games this year are... Tampa and the Tigers. And if you look at the stats, one of his 5 run games? Tampa Bay. Sometimes lineups just have a guy's number... I know it's hard to believe it's Unit, but it is. Tampa just hits him well this year. He hasn't been the dominant ace we hoped for, but he hasn't been bad enough to say he sucks.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:01 pm

Randy Johnson wasn't brought to New York to "pitch ok" or to "keep the Yankees within reach."

He's supposed to dominate. Who has he dominated this year? St. Louis and Pittsburgh (if you even can count them)? That is a joke. Randy sucks compared to what he's supposed to be doing. That is a fact. He's done nothing close to what he was brought to New York to do.

And don't ever question my allegiance to the Yankees. I would never boo the true Yankees.
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Postby bigh0rt » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:03 pm

If he sucks, his numbers should suck. If his numbers on the season suck (the only number that's not stellar is his ERA, which is the result of a few 7 ER outings, 2 of which were in his last 3 starts), hell, I'll take a whole team of starters who "suck" for the Mets.

I don't care about this "machine v. man" nonsense and this and that. His WHIP is 1.22, which isn't exactly Randy Johnson-like, but it's certainly up there with other AL Aces, and only 0.06 higher than his career average. His .263 BAA is nothing to write home about, but I didn't hear all this garbage about him "sucking" between April 24th and June 16th, when he only allowed more than 3 ER twice, averaged 6.4 K's per outing (one of which he put up the goose egg in), and held a 2.80 ERA during that span.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:38 pm

SominaDei wrote:You're probably one of the people who booed Mo when he blew it earlier in the year, aren't you... don't lie.

Give you a break? Give me a break chief, Unit doesn't suck and he doesn't suck... right now. Is he living up to his contract? Absolutely not. But to say he sucks is completely false. Before his blips against the Rays and the Tigers recently, he'd allowed only 5 runs or less in each of his previous starts. The KC business? No run support. He allowed three bloody runs in eight innings and lost the game, not his fault. In fact, his only two BAD games this year are... Tampa and the Tigers. And if you look at the stats, one of his 5 run games? Tampa Bay. Sometimes lineups just have a guy's number... I know it's hard to believe it's Unit, but it is. Tampa just hits him well this year. He hasn't been the dominant ace we hoped for, but he hasn't been bad enough to say he sucks.


Wtf? You say he's allowed 5 or less earned runs as if that's a good thing. I'm supposed to be satisfied with 5 earned runs from a guy making nearly 20 million dollars and who is supposed to be the best pitcher in baseball?

Where are his 2 or less earned run performances? How many times has he gone longer than 7 innings? What, 3 or 4 times tops? He should have an ERA below 3, not over 4. He has not been a stopper, he has not provided me with ANY confidence that he'll stop the Yankees bleeding. He has not done his job.
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Postby bigh0rt » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:46 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
SominaDei wrote:You're probably one of the people who booed Mo when he blew it earlier in the year, aren't you... don't lie.

Give you a break? Give me a break chief, Unit doesn't suck and he doesn't suck... right now. Is he living up to his contract? Absolutely not. But to say he sucks is completely false. Before his blips against the Rays and the Tigers recently, he'd allowed only 5 runs or less in each of his previous starts. The KC business? No run support. He allowed three bloody runs in eight innings and lost the game, not his fault. In fact, his only two BAD games this year are... Tampa and the Tigers. And if you look at the stats, one of his 5 run games? Tampa Bay. Sometimes lineups just have a guy's number... I know it's hard to believe it's Unit, but it is. Tampa just hits him well this year. He hasn't been the dominant ace we hoped for, but he hasn't been bad enough to say he sucks.


Wtf? You say he's allowed 5 or less earned runs as if that's a good thing. I'm supposed to be satisfied with 5 earned runs from a guy making nearly 20 million dollars and who is supposed to be the best pitcher in baseball?

Where are his 2 or less earned run performances? How many times has he gone longer than 7 innings? What, 3 or 4 times tops? He should have an ERA below 3, not over 4. He has not been a stopper, he has not provided me with ANY confidence that he'll stop the Yankees bleeding. He has not done his job.


So everybody not meeting these criteria outlined above, suck?

Just a FYI, for the season:

Johnson has 6 2 or less ER performances, in 17 starts, or 35%.

7 or more IP in 8 of his 17 starts, or 47%. The man was born in 1963, there's simply no reason, when Gordon and Rivera in the pen, to throw him more than 7 innings, which he's still done 6 times, 4 of which were in consecutive outings.

His ERA is under 4 in both April and June, only above 4 in May, and July, which has been 1 start. Patience is a virtue, one I don't see in you judging from most of your posts. In fact, the only time I've seen you suggest patience was with Pavano, and that was only so you don't end up with another "told ya so" situation like you had with Vazquez.

The guy admitted, he hasn't earned his paycheck. Did you really expect him to pitch to $20 mil, given all the factors in play? Adjust your expectations or you're in for a lifetime of disappointment.

But yeah, he sucks. ;-7
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Postby TheYanks04 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:51 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
SominaDei wrote:You're probably one of the people who booed Mo when he blew it earlier in the year, aren't you... don't lie.

Give you a break? Give me a break chief, Unit doesn't suck and he doesn't suck... right now. Is he living up to his contract? Absolutely not. But to say he sucks is completely false. Before his blips against the Rays and the Tigers recently, he'd allowed only 5 runs or less in each of his previous starts. The KC business? No run support. He allowed three bloody runs in eight innings and lost the game, not his fault. In fact, his only two BAD games this year are... Tampa and the Tigers. And if you look at the stats, one of his 5 run games? Tampa Bay. Sometimes lineups just have a guy's number... I know it's hard to believe it's Unit, but it is. Tampa just hits him well this year. He hasn't been the dominant ace we hoped for, but he hasn't been bad enough to say he sucks.


Wtf? You say he's allowed 5 or less earned runs as if that's a good thing. I'm supposed to be satisfied with 5 earned runs from a guy making nearly 20 million dollars and who is supposed to be the best pitcher in baseball?

Where are his 2 or less earned run performances? How many times has he gone longer than 7 innings? What, 3 or 4 times tops? He should have an ERA below 3, not over 4. He has not been a stopper, he has not provided me with ANY confidence that he'll stop the Yankees bleeding. He has not done his job.


Amen. Like this guy is a 5th starter you are happy with if he keeps you in a game. My patience is very thin with the Big Waste as I am sure other Yankee fans are. If he alone had pitched like he was expteced to, the Yanks would probably be within a game of first despite the rest of the mess on this team. If he and Pavano had done their jobs, they would be in first. They haven't and to sugar coat the obvious ineptitude is silly.

RJ is throwing flat sliders and the gopher balls are flying as a result. His velocity has also been down this season. That is the bottom line.
Last edited by TheYanks04 on Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:52 pm

Patience is a virtue? Ok, so I'm supposed to wait until the All-Star Break for a guy who is supposed to be the savior of this team to start doing anything?

If the Yankees wanted patience, they would never have traded any of their prospects. The only reason they went out to get Randy Johnson was to win THIS YEAR. If they wanted to wait another 4 years to win, they wouldn't have gone after a 41 year old pitcher.

And so RJ now is allowed to dominate 35% of the time? Does Clemens only dominate 35% of the time? Does Halladay? YES I EXPECTED him to pitch to $20 million. He did last year. I can understand a rough start. But the season is officially halfway over, and he's been one of the biggest dissapointments of the season.

That SUCKS.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:56 pm

That is the sme nonsense we heard wrt to Vazquez...oh we should pay him 12M to go put up 5 ERAs. We have to be patient with the youngster. Utter and complete nonsense. YOu pay guys big bucks to perform, not to get lit up 50+% of the time and be coddled. Vazquez blew and he was sent off...good riddance as he can't even post a sub 4 ERA in the NL under no poessure with pitchers hitting.
RJ is far worse as he makes 15M and is pitching like a 4th starter.
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Postby bigh0rt » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:11 pm

You didn't answer my question. Does everybody not meeting your criteria suck? If so, that's fine. We just have different books, then, on what we consider suck and what doesn't suck. So long as you stay consistant.

You mention Halladay and Clemens as your test subjects to measure against Unit. I figured I'd check out on their %s compared with Unit's, and based on these two numbers alone, they've been about twice as effective as he has B-) (despite Clemens only matching Unit's win total; but that's a different thread)

Recap - Unit: 35/47%

Halladay:

72% of his starts this year with 2 or less ER.

83% of his starts have gone 7.0 IP or more, which is not just a measure of him pitching better than Unit, though that certainly comes into play. Being 14 years younger and having a bullpen considerably worse than Johnson must be taken into account.



Clemens:

83% of his starts this year with 2 or less ER.

72% of his starts this year have gone 7.0 IP or more.



Considerably better than Johnson, admitted. I wouldn't have taken the time to look up the numbers if I didn't have a point, though. My statement patience is a virtue holds true, though. If you'd looked at the numbers, you may have picked it up, but now maybe you'll go check it out. What was the last year ol' Unit carried a higher ERA in the second half than in the first? You may be surprised at the answer. So yes, patience is a virtue. I'm not saying three years patience like you ask the average fan; we've already learned that with Yankee fans (stereotypically, and clearly you BronxBombers, based on your last post alone, can't be bothered with that) want their immediate fix (and there's nothing wrong with that, either), so all I'm saying is, don't go making stupid claims (yes, in my opinion, they are stupid claims) like Randy Johnson sucks after one half of average baseball. He's one of the most dominant pitchers baseball has ever seen, period. To claim anything else is ignorance, and nothing more. Be disappointed with his performance so far, and the dropoff from his career averages, go ahead, just don't get all mellow dramatic and exaggerate. All I'm asking.
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