Matthias wrote:yes, well, so far, the yankees aren't making the playoffs. and if you say it's early... well, then, so are alex's stats. the FIRST HALF mvp, as i said earlier, i like tejada as the clubhouse glue of a very improved o's squad.
You're being silly. Roberts has posted a better season than Tejada and so has Alex Rodriguez.
And agreed with Bronx about you contridicting yourself there.
i was pointing out a contradiction inherent in one of blankman's earlier posts where he said that if the yankees go to the playoffs, then rodriguez should be the mvp. however, since we're talking the first half, the yankees are NOT going to the playoffs if the season ended at the ASB. so then rodriguez would NOT be the mvp. and i was anticipating an argument of, "well, the yankees still might turn it around and win the east and that would make rodriguez mvp material." but if you follow that train of thought, then you also can't say that rodriguez's stats will necessarily project into the second half of the season.
get it?
and, contrary to roto statheads, the mvp is not always the best statistical season. they don't just ring up bill james and say, "hey, who had the best numbers this year?" like pro bowls, all star nominations, and everything else, there's reputational intangibles on how you affect your team. and (i could be wrong here, but it's what i've read) to a man the o's squad has placed their success at the plate of tejada. and that is something that writers consider when making their decision. (is it how i would decide? no. read a dozen posts above for that). but it's how it's done. like me & this thread.
Matthias wrote:and, contrary to roto statheads, the mvp is not always the best statistical season. they don't just ring up bill james and say, "hey, who had the best numbers this year?"
Maybe they should...
[size=10]"Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument." [/size]
Matthias wrote:yes, well, so far, the yankees aren't making the playoffs. and if you say it's early... well, then, so are alex's stats. the FIRST HALF mvp, as i said earlier, i like tejada as the clubhouse glue of a very improved o's squad.
You're being silly. Roberts has posted a better season than Tejada and so has Alex Rodriguez.
And agreed with Bronx about you contridicting yourself there.
i was pointing out a contradiction inherent in one of blankman's earlier posts where he said that if the yankees go to the playoffs, then rodriguez should be the mvp. however, since we're talking the first half, the yankees are NOT going to the playoffs if the season ended at the ASB. so then rodriguez would NOT be the mvp. and i was anticipating an argument of, "well, the yankees still might turn it around and win the east and that would make rodriguez mvp material." but if you follow that train of thought, then you also can't say that rodriguez's stats will necessarily project into the second half of the season.
get it?
and, contrary to roto statheads, the mvp is not always the best statistical season. they don't just ring up bill james and say, "hey, who had the best numbers this year?" like pro bowls, all star nominations, and everything else, there's reputational intangibles on how you affect your team. and (i could be wrong here, but it's what i've read) to a man the o's squad has placed their success at the plate of tejada. and that is something that writers consider when making their decision. (is it how i would decide? no. read a dozen posts above for that). but it's how it's done. like me & this thread.
You're taking things far too literally.
When the first half MVP is discussed, the conversation is bound to also discuss what will happen in the future and decide the same award at the end of the year.
HOOTIE wrote:Sheffield has really gotton into the mix. He's tied with Roberts with most win shares in al. He also leads in RC with 80, Arod and Ortiz 74, Roberts 73. RC/G has Sheffield at 9.9, Roberts 9.6, Arod 9.1. Tejada has 69 RC, and 8.0 RC/G. Roberts, Arod, Sheffield are all close for mvp.
Good point about Sheffield. He's certainly in the running.
I really don't think Ortiz should be included in the MVP discussion. Yes, his batting numbers are outstanding but correct me if I'm wrong here. Defense is half of the game. Giving MVP to a guy who doesnt play the field is ludacris.
Box wrote:I really don't think Ortiz should be included in the MVP discussion. Yes, his batting numbers are outstanding but correct me if I'm wrong here. Defense is half of the game. Giving MVP to a guy who doesnt play the field is ludacris.
not ludicrous. how many mvp awards have been given out because of defensive acumen? i would say it would be harder for a DH to win the mvp (looks like it's never happened) but when that player is dominating the rest of the league, then that's the guy. if there's someone who has a sparkling bat and also a defensive wizard, then that's extra points. but if, say, david ortiz and jason giambi had the same stats at the end of the year... the fact that giambi spent some time flailing at first... still would be a tossup in my mind. if david ortiz and torii hunter had the same stats: different story.
but if you really want to say that if barry bonds had spent his last four seasons DH'ing for some AL club, and had the same offensive stats, and he SHOULDN'T have gotten the mvp in those seasons? now... THAT is ludicrous.
Box wrote:I really don't think Ortiz should be included in the MVP discussion. Yes, his batting numbers are outstanding but correct me if I'm wrong here. Defense is half of the game. Giving MVP to a guy who doesnt play the field is ludacris.
not ludicrous. how many mvp awards have been given out because of defensive acumen? i would say it would be harder for a DH to win the mvp (looks like it's never happened) but when that player is dominating the rest of the league, then that's the guy. if there's someone who has a sparkling bat and also a defensive wizard, then that's extra points. but if, say, david ortiz and jason giambi had the same stats at the end of the year... the fact that giambi spent some time flailing at first... still would be a tossup in my mind. if david ortiz and torii hunter had the same stats: different story.
but if you really want to say that if barry bonds had spent his last four seasons DH'ing for some AL club, and had the same offensive stats, and he SHOULDN'T have gotten the mvp in those seasons? now... THAT is ludicrous.
But Ortiz hasn't ever had and doesn't this year have offensive numbers that blow everyone out of the water like Bonds did. (I know you didn't say he does, just elaborating).
He won't win it with competive numbers as a DH IMHO. He'd have to completely dominate everyone like Bonds did and he just won't do that with so many other excellent players out there.
I just don't think a DH ever could win the MVP unless his numbers completely trumped everyone.
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by Matthias » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:38 am 
