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Rangers give Soriano for Wang and Cano? Yanks Say No

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Postby dyuen87 » Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:30 pm

i dont want to jump right into this but i will. mweir145 please get an idea and some facts before you start arguing. you started off by saying you had "scouting reports" then you've forgotten what they were and you say you've been to see him 3 times? well ive watched every game he's pitched and i can vouch tat he hits mid 90s on a consistent basis. and not looking like he can throw hard isnt a very good arguement. for example kazmir former mets prospect is an absolute flamethrower and he looks like a twig compared to another guy in the mets farm system, petite. this guy's huge and stays in the upper 80s to low 90s. so yu either dont know very much about baseball or you just wanted to argue for no reason. :-t
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Postby mweir145 » Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:38 pm

dyuen87 wrote:i dont want to jump right into this but i will. mweir145 please get an idea and some facts before you start arguing. you started off by saying you had "scouting reports" then you've forgotten what they were and you say you've been to see him 3 times? well ive watched every game he's pitched and i can vouch tat he hits mid 90s on a consistent basis. and not looking like he can throw hard isnt a very good arguement. for example kazmir former mets prospect is an absolute flamethrower and he looks like a twig compared to another guy in the mets farm system, petite. this guy's huge and stays in the upper 80s to low 90s. so yu either dont know very much about baseball or you just wanted to argue for no reason. :-t


Here's some advice, maybe you should get your facts straight before you enter an argument.

First of all, I never forgot where these "scouting reports" were, I just have no intention of going back to find them because from what I remember from them, they essentially agree with everything blankman, Strasil and Bronx Bombers have to say about him. As for going to see him 3 times, thats not true either. I've never gone to see him, only have seen him on TV 3 times which is a bit better, because you can see how fast he pitches without distraction.

My argument was never "it looks like he can't throw hard." My argument if you even call it that was based on what I had seen from him in 3 starts (peak=91mph) and the scouting reports I had read a number of months ago in preparation for his first game agaisnt the Jays. I never didn't believe that he could hit low to mid 90s because thats what I had read, and what you guys are telling me. I just find it hard to believe that a guy I have never seen break 91mph can throw 97mph almost with regularity now. Of course things might have now changed since I last watched him pitch about 3 weeks ago.

And again, this was never about mechanics.. Obviously in alot of ways this is more important than how "big" you are. But good example with Kazmir. He throws very fast for a small guy.
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Postby Strasil42 » Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:00 pm

heres a link to a video that shows him throwing over 91.

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/m ... _id=425426
(it is the 5/17 video where he retires 17 straight)

At the beginning of the video they show his fastball ranges from 91-97 mph.

Now you can say youve seen him throw over 91. ;-D ;-D
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Postby mweir145 » Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:21 pm

yes i certainly can but no 97 mph yet. :-D

The 2 pitches they show him: one is an 87mph slider and what looks to be a 93mph fastball.

Fastest ive seen him yet, though.
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Postby davidmarver » Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:36 pm

Please don't use what teammates have said, or what the team itself says which is what is in those scouting reports as how hard a person throws. I always use the visiter's radar gun to clock how hard Peavy throws because you know almost all home teams jack up their guns a few mph for their own pitchers. I'd venture to guess Wang's a 90-93 type person that can go as high as 95, but that's not that bad. He's not a strikeout-type pitcher anyway. Right now he's got to keep the ball in the ballpark, though. I grabbed him in a dynasty league and until he gets that under control, he'll be riding my bench. He looks promising, but so did Brian Tollberg. I'd temper my optimism if I were a Yankees fan on Wang. If you can get a guy like Soriano for him and Cano, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:45 pm

davidmarver wrote:Please don't use what teammates have said, or what the team itself says which is what is in those scouting reports as how hard a person throws. I always use the visiter's radar gun to clock how hard Peavy throws because you know almost all home teams jack up their guns a few mph for their own pitchers. I'd venture to guess Wang's a 90-93 type person that can go as high as 95, but that's not that bad. He's not a strikeout-type pitcher anyway. Right now he's got to keep the ball in the ballpark, though. I grabbed him in a dynasty league and until he gets that under control, he'll be riding my bench. He looks promising, but so did Brian Tollberg. I'd temper my optimism if I were a Yankees fan on Wang. If you can get a guy like Soriano for him and Cano, I'd do it in a heartbeat.


That's your opinion. You're on the outside looking in. If you were a Yankee fan, I guarentee you'd feel much different.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:54 pm

Soriano?...this thread cracks me up.

The same Soriano that K'ed 20+ times in the 2003 WS....admired balls that he thought were going out and got singles (twice)...has hands of stone, the brains of Tyson and the selfishness of Sosa?

Trade our top 2 young guys for what...a guy with no plate discilpline who ks too much, does not walk and despite the BS to the contrary spouted here, is nothing short of a hack in the field. Rangers do not want to pay Sorinao 12+M in arbitration next season and want to unload him now...have a nice day. The last thing this team needs is another poor fielding, high K, selfish, poor fundamentals ballplayer at the expense of what ist desparately needs, namely young talented pitching.
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Postby blankman » Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:05 pm

Most simply, this isn't Fantasy Baseball fellas. Soriano is no where near the player in reality that we think of him here as. His value in fantasy is far more than in real life. His defense is bad, he strikes out constantly and there's no where for him to hit in the lineup anyway, since he strikes out too much to hit 2nd, doesn't get on base enough to leadoff and he's no better than Sheffield, Alex or Matsui, so he'd have to hit 6th. Who then hits 2nd after Cano is gone. This stuff isn't the point really though.

More importantly,
When he can be had at the end of the season anyway, it's moronic to trade your two top prospects to get him 4 months earlier.

Its a completely unnecessary deal and addresses 0 problems the team has and actually creates another one as Wang isn't just a prospect any more, he's the 4th starter for a team that only has 4 healthy starters to begin with. The defense gets even worse and there's still no CF solution. Even if you want to stick Soriano in CF for the future, (the topic earlier) you can't stick him there midseason when he's never even played the OF.
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Postby DaQ » Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:18 pm

I'm settling hte whole speed dispute right now...

He throws 94 mph. I went to the O's-Yanks game Tuesday and he repeatedly threw at that speed (his highest in that game). He doesn't really strike out many people because he throws a lot of pitches in the strike zone. Like Dan Kolb, he throws rather hard, but doesn't strike out many. I am presuming his other stuff isn't too great since he isn't close to a dominating pitcher at all with that 4.26 ERA. This is all based on what I saw at the game (He gave up 3 ER in 7 IP with 3 K's, not a bad outing).

I don't know too much about him though, but he seems to be a middle-to-back of the rotation guy (4th SP?). So if there's something you disagree with, you may be right since I don't really know a ton about the guy.

And on the Soriano-Wang/Cano deal, I would definately do it. The Yanks are always a "win now" team, and Soriano will help them a lot more than Wang and Cano. Although I am a Mets fan, I like Cano, but Soriano right now is a much better player - he can do everything offensively (I kinow his fielding is mediocre) and can hit .280, which isn't too bad. Again though, the Yanks should have definately done that trade despite the salary problems (the Yanks already have a high payroll) - Soriano, unlike Cano and Wang will really help the Yanks this year.
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Postby blankman » Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:35 pm

DaQ wrote:Soriano can do everything offensively (I kinow his fielding is mediocre) and can hit .280, which isn't too bad. Again though, the Yanks should have definately done that trade despite the salary problems (the Yanks already have a high payroll) - Soriano, unlike Cano and Wang will really help the Yanks this year.


I completely disagree. Soriano can hit .280. Big friggin deal. Cano's hitting .289 as we speak.

Wang's contribution to the team has been enormous this season. He's been the most consistant and really the best pitcher on the team. How can Soriano contribute more than that? The Yanks only have 4 healthy pitchers right now, and taking out the best one really screws them over. That last sentence of yours is just entirely incorrect, because Soriano doesn't pitch and he makes the team defense even worse.
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