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Rangers give Soriano for Wang and Cano? Yanks Say No

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Postby blankman » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:04 pm

The Roto Authority wrote:jimenez vs. cano:

comparable power and fielding numbers, better on-base % for jimenez. i'd like to see what he can do in a new setting. just an opinion, it is good to see the yanks playing someone young so cano is not a bad choice.


Comparable power numbers?

Jimenez hit 12 HR in 152 games last season. Career high is 14. Cano has 6 in only 51 games this season, putting him on pace for 18 in a comparable 152 games. Jimenez also has 0 HR this season in 105 at bats.

Jimenez hit 28 doubles last season (career high) in those 152 games. Cano has 13 thus far, making him on pace for 39 over 152 games.

Cano is slugging .476. Jimenez has a career SLG of .382, his 2004 was .394. His career high SLG over a minimum of 50 AB's is .421 in the second half of 2003. And his 1st half SLG was worse, so .421 is even too high to call his best for a full season.

I must correct a previous statement. He's played 2, not 1 full seasons, 2003 and 2004.
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Postby blankman » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:07 pm

Mack Daddy 281 wrote:The Yankees don't need Soriano for all the reasons stated. They can just get him in the offseason, trading for him NOW does not mean they will make the playoffs and win the World Series. If anything their chances will be worse with the trade since they need PITCHING, not a power hitter. By trading away Wang, who is their #4, and is doing pretty decent thus far, they will have a collapse in the rotation. Even if Randy and Pavano get it going, Moose and whoever fills in the #4 spot are not a guaranteed bet, and will be ridiciulously inconsistent. Initially I bet this trade would put the Yanks on a short little winning streak, just b/c of change and a little shot in the arm with the return of Soriano, kindof a mental boost. But after that fades, the same ol' Yankees will return and everyone will be scratching their heads wondering why the trade didn't work.

Now hypothetically if the Yanks DID do this trade AND also made another trade where they got Burnett or Schmidt, then I would be more in favor of doing it. But their is no indiciation that will happen, so they made the right move by staying young.

This coming from a Tigers fan %-6


Well said.
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Postby BritSox » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:48 pm

Hate to do this, but I gotta agree with the Stormtroopers.

Basically, trading away prospects for half a year of a stud is only valuable if it lets you, or at least gets you very close to, winning it all. Now there are three possible views on this year's NYY (well, on most contending teams):

1. They just aren't good enough to win it all, one more stud or not.
2. They are nearly good enough and just need that one more stud.
3. They are good enough anyway and just need a little luck, so one more superstar won't add much.

If you think the truth is 1 or 3, there is no point trading away good, cheap young players for a guy who'll be an FA at season's end. This is even if you are very high indeed on Sori. Even if the truth is 2, it's still a risk, as the NYY may fall just short, and still have their rebuilding program put back another year.

Think about it: having Wang means that they don't have to sign another middling pitcher, a la Wright or Pavano, with promise but no guarantee of being able to handle NY, and instead can put that money towards the next genuine superstar to become available: or at the very least, leaves them available as chips for when a genuinely appetizing trade comes along.
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Postby davidmarver » Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:21 pm

blankman wrote:
nsulham wrote:Just felt the compulsion to stick up for my fantasy 2B.

Yes Cano's hitting .292 compared to Sori's .280 but that's also in 100+ fewer ABs. If they were even in the AB category those averages would probably be darn close, which they pretty much are now.

I don't think badly of Cano at all but I also don't think Sori's nearly as bad as some are making him out to be.


In fantasy he's a stud. Yet in real life, he's not a complete stud. Too many K's and awful defense. Getting him 5 months earlier than when he's a FA is not worth losing Cano OR Wang forever. Those 5 months sooner simply aren't worth it. Obviously Soriano is a very talented player but his play does not translate well to the needs of the New York Yankees right now. Getting older, getting more expensive, becoming worse on defense and having yet another power slugger are all things this team needs to avoid doing. Role players were huge parts of the championship teams, and Cano does just that, filling the 2 spot that the team has had so much trouble filling since the end of the Knoblauch era.

You can't use that in an argument against Soriano, but not use it in Mark Kotsay's favor in the other thread. But you are right on D'Angelo Jiminez. He is not very good, nor is he close to Cano. Jiminez was considered better than Soriano before he injured his neck/back (?) in a car accident.
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Postby The Roto Authority » Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:23 pm

i think your assumptions have a major sample size problem. cano has 193 major league ABs and jimenez has 1986. the most extensive projection system (pecota) expects cano to slug about .390. you just told me cano slugged .394 in the minors in his most recent full season. did he start facing much stiffer competition and become a better hitter for it? unlikely. based on salaries, i think the yankees made the right choice. i still think jimenez has a slight edge as a player and has a track record to prove it. let's revisit at year's end.
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Postby blankman » Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:49 pm

davidmarver wrote:
blankman wrote:
nsulham wrote:Just felt the compulsion to stick up for my fantasy 2B.

Yes Cano's hitting .292 compared to Sori's .280 but that's also in 100+ fewer ABs. If they were even in the AB category those averages would probably be darn close, which they pretty much are now.

I don't think badly of Cano at all but I also don't think Sori's nearly as bad as some are making him out to be.


In fantasy he's a stud. Yet in real life, he's not a complete stud. Too many K's and awful defense. Getting him 5 months earlier than when he's a FA is not worth losing Cano OR Wang forever. Those 5 months sooner simply aren't worth it. Obviously Soriano is a very talented player but his play does not translate well to the needs of the New York Yankees right now. Getting older, getting more expensive, becoming worse on defense and having yet another power slugger are all things this team needs to avoid doing. Role players were huge parts of the championship teams, and Cano does just that, filling the 2 spot that the team has had so much trouble filling since the end of the Knoblauch era.

You can't use that in an argument against Soriano, but not use it in Mark Kotsay's favor in the other thread. But you are right on D'Angelo Jiminez. He is not very good, nor is he close to Cano. Jiminez was considered better than Soriano before he injured his neck/back (?) in a car accident.


I never said anything about Kotsay in another thread. I don't know a whole lot about him :-?
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Postby blankman » Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:51 pm

The Roto Authority wrote:you just told me cano slugged .394 in the minors in his most recent full season.


No I didn't. Jimenez had that SLG last season.

Jimenez's only track record is that he's not that good. All his numbers are mediocre at best and at this point he doesn't even begin to compare to Cano, especially considering age and potential.
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Postby blankman » Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:55 pm

Anyone notice Wang's impressive game today? 7 IP, 0 ER. He hit 3 batters but still kept going inside even after hitting Pudge got himself into a 1st and 2nd 0 out jam that he then worked out of in the 5th.

The guy's fearless by all accounts thus far. ;-D No reason to trade him for anything ;-D
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Postby mweir145 » Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:10 pm

blankman wrote:Anyone notice Wang's impressive game today? 7 IP, 0 ER. He hit 3 batters but still kept going inside even after hitting Pudge got himself into a 1st and 2nd 0 out jam that he then worked out of in the 5th.

The guy's fearless by all accounts thus far. ;-D No reason to trade him for anything ;-D


I did, and I was just about to mention it before you I see you did.
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Postby The Big Papi » Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:23 pm

blankman wrote:Anyone notice Wang's impressive game today? 7 IP, 0 ER. He hit 3 batters but still kept going inside even after hitting Pudge got himself into a 1st and 2nd 0 out jam that he then worked out of in the 5th.

The guy's fearless by all accounts thus far. ;-D No reason to trade him for anything ;-D


meh, I did as well. Of course it HAD to come against my Tigers, 2 heartbreakers in a row. 1-0 today, and yesterdays loss, why can't the Tigers beat up on the Yankees like everyone else ;-7
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