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The official Cashman and Stottlemeyer will be fired thread.

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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:06 pm

Amazing how many mistakes the Yankees have made since 2001, strictly pitching-wise.

-Ted Lilly traded for Jeff Weaver
-Jose Contreras signed
-Nick Johnson traded for Javier Vazquez
-Jeff Weaver traded for Kevin Brown
-Yhency Brazoban also traded for Kevin Brown
-Jaret Wright signed
-Carl Pavano signed
-Fail to resign Andy Pettitte
-Accquiring Felix Heredia
-Contreras traded for Esteban Loaiza

All of them have been awful. None of these moves have paid off. The jury is still out on Randy Johnson too. If he continues to suck, or be hurt, then trading Vazuqez for RJ and trading Brad Halsey for RJ are another two that you can add to the list.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:35 pm

To be fair to Cashman, I did not think the Contreras for Loaiza move was bad. He shed 13M in salary and got rid of a guy that was not going to cut it here anymore than Weaver was. Saving 13M off a mistake is not all that bad.

Loaiza actually was coming around at the end of last season and pitched pretty effectively in the playoffs albeit in a mopup/long man role. Hindsight is 20-20, but maybe Cashman would have been better off re-signing Loaiza on the cheap than going out and getting a stiff like Wright. In fact, he would also have been good insurance for a team carrying Wright and Brown as 4-5 starters. Those were 2 injuries you knew were just waiting to happen. The entire planet knew the Wright signing was a horrible mistake.




And while I agree that Sheff is hardly Mr. Personality and is no Paul O'neill...few are. O'neill was my favrite player and there are few around that played with his intelligence, knowledge of the game, ability and attitude. Guys like him do not come around that often and one of the biggest problems the Yanks have had is that it really is hard to replace guys chemistry and ability-wise like O'neill, Brosius, Cone etc. And even the role players back then like Giradi and Chili Davis were pretty smart and knew what their role was and how to get it done. Now we have no role players. We have overpaid and/or aging clowns like GIambi and Brown etc and stuck up stars like Arod.
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Postby rmeesig » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:23 am

To be fair to Cashman - let's lay blame where it truly belongs:

George Steinbrenner, Bill Emsile and the rest of the Tampa faction.

Stick Michael was on WFAN a couple weeks ago and said not ONE roster move this past off season was run by him first. Cashman and Stick are not to blame here. This is GS' work.
If a man dwells on the past, then he robs the present.
But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future.
The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past.
[i]-- Master Po[/i]
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:31 am

rmeesig wrote:To be fair to Cashman - let's lay blame where it truly belongs:

George Steinbrenner, Bill Emsile and the rest of the Tampa faction.

Stick Michael was on WFAN a couple weeks ago and said not ONE roster move this past off season was run by him first. Cashman and Stick are not to blame here. This is GS' work.


Ok, well Cashman admitted he made the Wright move. So that's one example to prove that's wrong.

And I highly doubt Steinbrenner was infatuated with Tony Womack, Jeff Weaver, Kevin Brown, etc.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:36 am

Michael is a special adviser to George, not the GM. That they do not talk to him is damning, but hardly indicative of George meddling or Cashman not running things to a large extent. Ibviously all decisions have George as the final say, but Cashman a is the GM working the phones and targeting talent.

Cashman is involved and if you think George is going around telling Cashman to "Go Get Heredia" or "Go get Jaret Wright" or "Go get Tony Womack" then you are obviously one of the Yankee fans who blame George for a rainout at the Stadium. George has his pluses and minus without a doubt...alot more pluses imo. There is little good I can say about Cashman over the past 3 or 4 years. He got Arod, he got Moose, he has fouled up just about every trade or signing of a pitcher since the start of 2001 actually.
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Postby rmeesig » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:43 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:
rmeesig wrote:To be fair to Cashman - let's lay blame where it truly belongs:

George Steinbrenner, Bill Emsile and the rest of the Tampa faction.

Stick Michael was on WFAN a couple weeks ago and said not ONE roster move this past off season was run by him first. Cashman and Stick are not to blame here. This is GS' work.


Ok, well Cashman admitted he made the Wright move. So that's one example to prove that's wrong.

And I highly doubt Steinbrenner was infatuated with Tony Womack, Jeff Weaver, Kevin Brown, etc.


Cashman made no such admission. Cashman admitted he played the market incorrectly when dealing with Lieber, forcing him to look elsewhere, but Wright was suggested by Bill Emsile.

You see, Billy boy had some not too fond memories of young Jaret in 1997 when he tore through the Yankee lineup in the post season. Billy was also fooled by Leo Mazzone's masterwork in 2004 and *THOUGHT* that's who the Yankees would be getting.

Womack was the specific player that Stick Michael was asked about on WFAN 2 weeks ago. Stick said he was NOT asked about Womack, contrary to a news report in Spring Training stating Womack was a favorite of Stick's. Again, Bill Emsile at work.

Weaver was indeed Steinbrenner's wet dream, and after that didn't pan out, Cash tried to fix the situation by trading him for Brown.

I'll give you that one - Brown was indeed a Cashman signing. But at the time, most people were just happy to see Jeff gone.

I'd suggest you take a look-see at Olney's book if you want a more clear understanding of the Yankee FO and heirarchy.
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The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:45 am

Who the hell is Bill Emsile and why haven't I heard of him if he's the one pulling all the strings?
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Postby rmeesig » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:46 am

TheYanks04 wrote:Michael is a special adviser to George, not the GM. That they do not talk to him is damning, but hardly indicative of George meddling or Cashman not running things to a large extent. Ibviously all decisions have George as the final say, but Cashman a is the GM working the phones and targeting talent.

Cashman is involved and if you think George is going around telling Cashman to "Go Get Heredia" or "Go get Jaret Wright" or "Go get Tony Womack" then you are obviously one of the Yankee fans who blame George for a rainout at the Stadium. George has his pluses and minus without a doubt...alot more pluses imo. There is little good I can say about Cashman over the past 3 or 4 years. He got Arod, he got Moose, he has fouled up just about every trade or signing of a pitcher since the start of 2001 actually.


I only blame George because he chooses to listen to a bunch of nostalgic old timers in Tampa that he plays shuffleboard with, who have NO clue about baseball.

I love the fact that George pours his heart and wallet into this team to see them win, but he is to blame for much of this team's shortcomings.
If a man dwells on the past, then he robs the present.
But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future.
The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past.
[i]-- Master Po[/i]
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Postby rmeesig » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:52 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:Who the hell is Bill Emsile and why haven't I heard of him if he's the one pulling all the strings?


Sorry, I've been misspelling it - Emslie

The Yankee front office is so at odds with one another, they have 2 headquarters. One at the stadium, and one in Tampa. Often times, the Tampa HQ is referred to as the Tampa Facton:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... 3936c.html

Around the Yankees, it is well-known that so much of the current decision-making depends on who has Steinbrenner's ear on a particular day.

Levine, who once worked in the Giuliani administration before realizing there was a much better opportunity to be mayor of the Yankees than mayor of New York City, talks to Steinbrenner constantly. He is, according to baseball people in and out of the Yankee organization that I talked to, as good as there is at pushing Steinbrenner's buttons. And getting himself as much face time as possible.

"You've got to get your message out," he likes to say around sportswriters.

Of course, it was Levine who stood on the field at Yankee Stadium last year, demanding a forfeit from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, who hadn't flown out of Tampa for an afternoon game at the Stadium until that morning because of a hurricane the previous weekend.

Levine loves these moments, no matter how bad he looks (some Yankee employees privately refer to him as "Gas Can" because of his ability to make any bad situation worse), because he believes it makes him look like the face and voice of the Yankees. A Boss on training wheels.

He is a powerful figure at Yankee Stadium, and thereby dangerous to Yankee fans, because of how little he actually knows about running a baseball team. If the Yankees are to go forward with Swindal, it will be interesting to see how the dynamic between him and Levine plays out.

Here is what one person familiar with the Yankee operation said about Swindal:

"Don't underestimate him. He knows the good, the bad and the ugly."

There is a feeling around the Yankees that perhaps things would be different, that the whole organization would run more smoothly even with Steinbrenner in what is clearly a reduced role, if he were in New York more, and Joe Torre and Brian Cashman had his ear more often than they do.

But they do not. He is in Tampa most of the time, listening to the likes of Bill Emslie, a former traveling secretary and former umpire who has become a force in the organization that defies logic or imagination, and Billy Connors, whom Steinbrenner alone views as some sort of pitching genius. There are other shadowy figures in the Tampa bunker, but somehow Emslie and Connors have assumed the most power.
If a man dwells on the past, then he robs the present.
But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future.
The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past.
[i]-- Master Po[/i]
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Postby rmeesig » Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:01 am

here's another good bit:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... 3063c.html

What disillusioned Yankee fans should care about is the neglect and waste that Steinbrenner has allowed to fester in the Tampa-based scouting and player development system. More than anyone, it is the entire Tampa branch of the Yankee hierarchy - the quintet of VPs, Mark Newman, Damon Oppenheimer, Bill Emslie, Lin Garrett and pitching guru Billy Connors - who should be answering for the absence of frontline talent coming through the system since the last (Jeter/Williams/Posada/Rivera/Andy Pettitte) bumper crop produced by former farm director Bill Livesey in the early 1990s. These are also the same people who didn't feel Yhency Brazoban was a prospect worth keeping and who pushed for the signing of Tony Womack (at the expense of Miguel Cairo) last winter.
If a man dwells on the past, then he robs the present.
But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future.
The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past.
[i]-- Master Po[/i]
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