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Roto or H2H

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Choose one

Roto
40
44%
H2H
50
56%
 
Total votes : 90

Postby max1889 » Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:55 pm

WittyC wrote:
Madison wrote:Never said there wasn't any luck in roto, just that luck is much more important in H2H. You can have the best team, the most consistant scoring, and not even make the playoffs in H2H. That's not the case in roto.


That's because there are no playoffs in roto! :-D

I agree that H2H is better with people you know, but roto is better with those you don't.

Even if your team does just get hot for 7 days against the best team, bragging is still legit. Your boys took it to their boys. If the Cubs end up taking the season series from the Chi-Sox, then miss the playoffs, I'm still going to bring it up to my buddy who's a Sox fan 2 to 3 times a day. That's how bragging rights work.

Roto is fine, but it feels so... cold. :*)

It's like surgical or something... there's no life to it. I'll beat the dead horse here, but when you can play spoiler at the end of the year, that's a great feeling. It's sort of like when the Bravos knocked my Cubs out of the WC race last year after we beat them in the 03 playoffs... I know folks in Atlanta were feeling pretty damn good about it.


I agree with the cold feeling. Roto seems to suck all the fun out of fantasy baseball. I find H2H much more fun, although I do think that Roto is a better way of telling which team had a better overall season.
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Postby Dice » Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:03 pm

I'm honestly shocked that more people chose H2H. The one time I played it I hated it. It seemed more an exercise in pitcher churning than everything. Maybe that was just the way the league was set up... with no IP ceiling. A keeper roto league seems the best set up for me.

I started off playing points. Thank goodness I got out of that rut.
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Postby Quadron » Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:13 pm

H2H. Roto can drag itself out reaaaaly badly when you start hitting the post-all-star break period. And weak teams just stop caring if they're down and out. H2H encourages participation.[/i]
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Postby josebach » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:29 pm

Madison wrote:
josebach wrote:
Madison wrote:
Josebach wrote:You make it sound like the worst team has just as much chance of winning on any given week than the best team. This is simply not true.


Not true? I watch it every year. I see teams that need to be completely reworked win simply because 1 or 2 guys got hot, or because the better team stunk it up for a week. Any team can win on any given week. That's why H2H has gained popularity over the years.


Yes, it's not true. I guess you're telling us that the Astros have a 50% chance of beating St Louis (this year) any time they play? If what you say is true, all the teams with a record over .500 are just lucky. If you have a better team, the odds are you will win more often than not. 220 games is a large enough sample size to both accurately rank a team AND neutralize the good and bad luck that occurs any given week during the season.


Huh? Where did real teams come into play? I'm simply saying that I've seen teams of waiver wire scrubs beat a stacked team for a whopping 7 day stretch in H2H leagues, several times each year. 7 days is way too short of a period of time to determine which team is better.

Real teams came into play because you said a bad fantasy team has just as much chance of winning as a good team on any given week. Just like in real baseball, a good fantasy team has a much better chance of winning than a bad team does. To imply otherwise (as you did) is ridiculous.

Madison wrote:
Josebach wrote:The reason H2H is more popular is because it more closely relates to real baseball. Every week/day, there will be a winner or loser... this is exciting. Every season, there will be teams in a playoff race... this is exciting. Every year there will be the playoffs... this is exciting. Sitting a home run hitter for a weekend series in favor of a SB guy in hopes that he'll get you one more stolen base is exciting. All of these facets of fantasy baseball that people enjoy so much are completely missing from the roto format.


Don't look now, but you're admitting the immediate gratification that I spoke of earlier. ;-)

Call it what you want. I call it fun. Anyway you cut it, roto is completely void of so many of the elements that people consider to be fun about fantasy baseball... or real baseball for that matter. Calling it "immediate gratification" isn't convincing anybody that these elements are not fun or that people that play H2H are less sophisticated than those that play roto.

A scoring system that eliminates teams from winning the league as early as roto does, seriously affects the integrity of the league.
Who cares if you win a league or have the best statistical team when half of the people in the league stopped caring half-way through the season. H2H keeps people honest... a lot more so than roto ever could.

Madison wrote:That in my opinion, roto is a far superior game to determine the best teams.


Lets just say that I'm glad MLB doesn't share your opinion. Comparing year long statistics to determine the best team? I'm sure fans would be lined up around the corner to see that. ;-)
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Postby Madison » Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:06 am

josebach wrote:Real teams came into play because you said a bad fantasy team has just as much chance of winning as a good team on any given week. Just like in real baseball, a good fantasy team has a much better chance of winning than a bad team does. To imply otherwise (as you did) is ridiculous.


Real teams don't come into play because fantasy baseball is different than real baseball. Is there a league out there where you can only start 1 starter per day, a couple of middle relievers, and one closer? How about only starting guys who are playing at the same ballpark for both teams? You put a third of the lineup of one team in Colorado and a third of the other team in Los Angeles and then add up the runs, homers, rbi, average, and steals. They do that kind of thing in real baseball?

Two completely different games and no matter what rules are made, fantasy baseball will never be the same as real baseball. ;-)

Josebach wrote:Call it what you want. I call it fun. Anyway you cut it, roto is completely void of so many of the elements that people consider to be fun about fantasy baseball... or real baseball for that matter. Calling it "immediate gratification" isn't convincing anybody that these elements are not fun or that people that play H2H are less sophisticated than those that play roto.


I'm not saying H2H isn't, or can't be fun to play. I'm simply saying that the majority of H2H players want immediate results and immediate things to be happy or mad about (preferably happy of course). Instant gratification. Not really that big of a deal and not real sure why you are stuck on that. The entire world is about immediate gratification, so it's really not that big of a deal. ;-)

Josebach wrote:A scoring system that eliminates teams from winning the league as early as roto does, seriously affects the integrity of the league.
Who cares if you win a league or have the best statistical team when half of the people in the league stopped caring half-way through the season. H2H keeps people honest... a lot more so than roto ever could.


Seems you understand that most people don't want to put the work into their team that it takes to win a roto league after a bad start. Due to underproducers and injuries a few years back (think it was '99, but might have been '00), I was sitting 9th out of 12 teams at the All-Star Break in a roto league. Guess what? I ended up winning that league. I spent hours and hours every day trying to do whatever I could to pull that team up out of the misery it was in. Ended up pulling off something like 6 trades and really followed the hot hitters/pitchers for adds and drops. I had more transactions in that league than I've ever had in my life in any league I've played. Was it worth it? Absolutely. Would I do all of that to beat another team for a 7 day stretch? Not a chance. Just not worth it to me.

Josebach wrote:Lets just say that I'm glad MLB doesn't share your opinion. Comparing year long statistics to determine the best team? I'm sure fans would be lined up around the corner to see that. ;-)


Real baseball and fantasy baseball are fantastic things, but they are not anywhere in the same ballpark as far as reality is concerned. Two completely, and extremely different things. Just a fact of life. ;-)
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Postby josebach » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:03 am

Madison wrote:
josebach wrote:Real teams came into play because you said a bad fantasy team has just as much chance of winning as a good team on any given week. Just like in real baseball, a good fantasy team has a much better chance of winning than a bad team does. To imply otherwise (as you did) is ridiculous.


Real teams don't come into play because fantasy baseball is different than real baseball. Is there a league out there where you can only start 1 starter per day, a couple of middle relievers, and one closer? How about only starting guys who are playing at the same ballpark for both teams? You put a third of the lineup of one team in Colorado and a third of the other team in Los Angeles and then add up the runs, homers, rbi, average, and steals. They do that kind of thing in real baseball?

Two completely different games and no matter what rules are made, fantasy baseball will never be the same as real baseball. ;-)

Josebach wrote:Call it what you want. I call it fun. Anyway you cut it, roto is completely void of so many of the elements that people consider to be fun about fantasy baseball... or real baseball for that matter. Calling it "immediate gratification" isn't convincing anybody that these elements are not fun or that people that play H2H are less sophisticated than those that play roto.


I'm not saying H2H isn't, or can't be fun to play. I'm simply saying that the majority of H2H players want immediate results and immediate things to be happy or mad about (preferably happy of course). Instant gratification. Not really that big of a deal and not real sure why you are stuck on that. The entire world is about immediate gratification, so it's really not that big of a deal. ;-)

Josebach wrote:A scoring system that eliminates teams from winning the league as early as roto does, seriously affects the integrity of the league.
Who cares if you win a league or have the best statistical team when half of the people in the league stopped caring half-way through the season. H2H keeps people honest... a lot more so than roto ever could.


Seems you understand that most people don't want to put the work into their team that it takes to win a roto league after a bad start. Due to underproducers and injuries a few years back (think it was '99, but might have been '00), I was sitting 9th out of 12 teams at the All-Star Break in a roto league. Guess what? I ended up winning that league. I spent hours and hours every day trying to do whatever I could to pull that team up out of the misery it was in. Ended up pulling off something like 6 trades and really followed the hot hitters/pitchers for adds and drops. I had more transactions in that league than I've ever had in my life in any league I've played. Was it worth it? Absolutely. Would I do all of that to beat another team for a 7 day stretch? Not a chance. Just not worth it to me.

Josebach wrote:Lets just say that I'm glad MLB doesn't share your opinion. Comparing year long statistics to determine the best team? I'm sure fans would be lined up around the corner to see that. ;-)


Real baseball and fantasy baseball are fantastic things, but they are not anywhere in the same ballpark as far as reality is concerned. Two completely, and extremely different things. Just a fact of life. ;-)


All good points. I guess the best thing to do is try both formats and pick whichever one you like better.

9th to 1st after the all star break is pretty impressive. ;-D
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