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Postby thehat » Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:47 am

WittyC wrote:
superfly wrote:Dallas McPherson


Either him or Swisher, but McPherson seems like the likely candidate since PG was talking about a big kid.

Dallas is 6'4", 230 lbs, and has a whopping 6 homers in 168 AB's. Swisher's the only other "highly touted" rookie who's really flopping, but from the sound of it, Gammons is talking about D-Mac.


I have no idea who the scout was talking about, but I'd sure bet against D-Mac. His problem sure isn't a lack of power, it's just making contact. And he's actually much stronger now than when he was drafted. The guy is friggin' huge.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:51 am

Gammons is an idiot, so why give this any value?

And if it is an AL GM, then he is obviously schilling for Epstein again, so ask yourself who Boston wants to bad mouth rookie-wise?
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Postby thehat » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:03 am

TheYanks04 wrote:Gammons is an idiot, so why give this any value?

And if it is an AL GM, then he is obviously schilling for Epstein again, so ask yourself who Boston wants to bad mouth rookie-wise?


C'mon Yanks, your dislike for Gammons is coloring your usual solid judgement. Like him or not, he gets more juicy off the record stuff than anyone in the business. Don't think for a second that everything is coming from Theo...everyone talks to Gammons. There are doors open to him that are closed to everyone else in the media. The only one who probably comes remotely close is the fast-rising Rosenthal, who is very good.

Gammons is being inducted into the HOF this summer. I'm not questioning your right to detest the guy...and yes, he's clearly biased in favor of the Red Sox...but within the baseball media, there's no one more respected than Gammons, and to suggest that he's an idiot is nonsensical.
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Postby WharfRat » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:13 am

thehat wrote:
TheYanks04 wrote:Gammons is an idiot, so why give this any value?

And if it is an AL GM, then he is obviously schilling for Epstein again, so ask yourself who Boston wants to bad mouth rookie-wise?


C'mon Yanks, your dislike for Gammons is coloring your usual solid judgement. Like him or not, he gets more juicy off the record stuff than anyone in the business. Don't think for a second that everything is coming from Theo...everyone talks to Gammons. There are doors open to him that are closed to everyone else in the media. The only one who probably comes remotely close is the fast-rising Rosenthal, who is very good.

Gammons is being inducted into the HOF this summer. I'm not questioning your right to detest the guy...and yes, he's clearly biased in favor of the Red Sox...but within the baseball media, there's no one more respected than Gammons, and to suggest that he's an idiot is nonsensical.


Gammons' HOF plaque is totally deserving - the guy revolutioned baseball journalism - but truth be told, it seems like he's wrong pretty often, despite the insider connections. I find myself trusting Tim Kurkjian and Bob Klapisch way more than Gammons. He's just over-the-hill, sad as it is. He deserves everybody's respect, yeah, but you can respect him and still admit he's well past his prime.
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Postby thehat » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:21 am

WharfRat wrote:
Gammons' HOF plaque is totally deserving - the guy revolutioned baseball journalism - but truth be told, it seems like he's wrong pretty often, despite the insider connections. I find myself trusting Tim Kurkjian and Bob Klapisch way more than Gammons. He's just over-the-hill, sad as it is. He deserves everybody's respect, yeah, but you can respect him and still admit he's well past his prime.


I'll admit he's slipped and is past his prime. For that matter, so am I. But he still gets a lot of good info. He may not pound the beat as hard as did when younger, but he's sure paid his dues.

One of my long time friends is regarded as probably the best inside source in the NFL as far as the media goes. He'll be the first one to admit that much of the info/rumors he passes along to his readers does not come to fruition.

But his job is put that info into his column, whether it turns out to be on the money or not, as long as it came from a good source.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:24 am

I do not respect anyone who is wrong 90+ % of the time and who has spent the better part of his career being a mouthpiece for the Boston franchise. Yes I obviously have a deep dislike and bias against the Red Sox, but even Boston fans know he is just a paid schill.

As a journalist, just what exactly has that fool done outside of walk into Epstein's or Duqueet's office and get told/paid to say what suited Boston interest?
...And passing it off as being independent minded journalism and while mixing in the usual plethora of BS guess work like Benson was going to be great (along with Casey Fossum).
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Postby thehat » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:37 am

TheYanks04 wrote:

As a journalist, just what exactly has that fool done outside of walk into Epstein's or Duqueet's office and get told/paid to say what suited Boston interest?
...And passing it off as being independent minded journalism and while mixing in the usual plethora of BS guess work like Benson was going to be great (along with Casey Fossum).


First of all, virtually EVERYBODY thought Benson was going to be great. He was a huge prospect who was completely mishandled early in his career by the Pirates. Fossum was not put in that class, but most experts thought he was going to be a quality big league starter. (Interestingly, both are actually pitching pretty well this year!)

As for Gammons...as pointed out in another post, his "Baseball Notes" column changed the way the game is covered forever. If you want to rip the guy, go ahead, but don't be ignorant about it. He's not getting into the HOF on his looks....and the fact he was voted in by his peers speaks volume about how he's respected.

Then again, maybe all those baseball writers who voted him in are the idiots and you're the real expert.
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Postby WharfRat » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:38 am

TheYanks04 wrote:As a journalist, just what exactly has that fool done outside of walk into Epstein's or Duqueet's office and get told/paid to say what suited Boston interest?


He was one of the original insider-type journalists like we have today everywhere. Journalism has always been about relationships, but Gammons is one of the ones who brought that idea to baseball coverage in a fruitful and intensive way. He also was one of the first to write baseball columns with little bits and pieces of info from all across the country (I know you're familiar with Lupica - Gammons was kind've the original Baseball Lupica). Writers used to focus only on local teams, for the most part; Gammons followed everybody while at the Globe (although the Sox were still first, of course).

Hat: Good point about the differences between simply passing on info and making sure that info is accurate. I'd make the case, though, that the most important thing a reporter can do is ensure accuracy whenever possible, even in sports journalism, philosophically speaking. Plus, I just hate it when the sports media build up groundless stories, as they are known to do.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:43 am

Well we can agree to disagree.

Oh and comparing him to Mike the Lip (a horrible Met Schill who makes Gammons look like the Oracle at Delphi) is hardly complimentary to say the least.
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Postby thehat » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:51 am

WharfRat wrote:

Hat: Good point about the differences between simply passing on info and making sure that info is accurate. I'd make the case, though, that the most important thing a reporter can do is ensure accuracy whenever possible, even in sports journalism, philosophically speaking. Plus, I just hate it when the sports media build up groundless stories, as they are known to do.


You bring up an interesting point as well, and it's one that causes a good deal of knuckle-cracking for those of us who have access to info (the scale of which is unimportant...it's the same type of scenario for both local and national guys). The problem is that if it's a reasonably reliable source, you've got to go with it, even if you personally find it questionable or unlikely. If you don't, the source might get insulted that you didn't use his info, and will seek out someone else in the future. If this is a decent source, you sure don't want to have him doing that.

Kind of a double-edge sword to be sure. On the one hand, much of this grapevine material doesn't ever materialize, which causes readers, viewers or listeners to label you an idiot. Nevertheless, when the scoop does come down, you've got to have it before anyone else if you're doing your job.

I've learned over the years that a large number of fans choose only to remember the mistakes and conveniently forget the items you got right...and got first. Goes with the turf.
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