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Doesn't get much better than Clemens

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Postby Yoda » Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:15 pm

TB13 wrote:I do not see how anyone could have written him off. Why retire? He's been as good as any pitcher in the league. Hitters are not even sniffing him. At this point, why not go for 400 wins?


Trust me, plenty of people including the regular posters here at the cafe claimed that he was washed up.

Top 10 pitcher as long as he is healthy. Period.
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Postby TB13 » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:05 pm

Yoda wrote:Top 10 pitcher as long as he is healthy. Period.


Can't disagree. Even if he begins to slow down, how much of a drop-off can there be in the immediate-near future? It actaully looks like he has reinvented himself in the past several years. He is not pitching the same way like he was when he was a Yankee. He actaully looks better.
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Postby bd3521 » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:07 pm

Yoda wrote:Trust me, plenty of people including the regular posters here at the cafe claimed that he was washed up


Right on Yoda. Clemens was pushed aside in almost all pre-season rankings. I was amazed at which pitchers were going before him
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Postby reznorsboy » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:11 pm

He was the first Pitcher I drafted and was laughed at. I'm glad I took him. I wish the Astros would do a deal or something to get him some run support or trade him to the Rangers.
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Postby chadxor » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:41 pm

whatever. hindsight is everything. it's ridiculous you're all acting like clemens should have been considered a lock prior to this year. it's even more insane you're suggesting you expected these numbers

there were too many questions surrounding clemens this season. he wasn't as dominant as, say, randy, which hurt his stock. he also played for a team we knew would be horrible, not to mention there was talk of retirement

TWO years ago he was already written off. forget that? he was simply average two years in a row and one season wasn't going to change my opinion of that

and, oh yeah, he's turnin forty freakin three in under 2 months.

personally, no regrets not picking him up. he always went too high for my tastes and i still feel people are asking unfair value. sure, he's a workhorse, but what if he gets a mild injury? any other pitcher would be out for two-three weeks while clemens would be considering early retirement
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Postby Yoda » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:58 pm

chadxor wrote:whatever. hindsight is everything. it's ridiculous you're all acting like clemens should have been considered a lock prior to this year. it's even more insane you're suggesting you expected these numbers

there were too many questions surrounding clemens this season. he wasn't as dominant as, say, randy, which hurt his stock. he also played for a team we knew would be horrible, not to mention there was talk of retirement

TWO years ago he was already written off. forget that? he was simply average two years in a row and one season wasn't going to change my opinion of that

and, oh yeah, he's turnin forty freakin three in under 2 months.

personally, no regrets not picking him up. he always went too high for my tastes and i still feel people are asking unfair value. sure, he's a workhorse, but what if he gets a mild injury? any other pitcher would be out for two-three weeks while clemens would be considering early retirement


Yeah he only has one great season in his career. What a joke. LOL.
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Postby chadxor » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:05 pm

where did i say that?

people do drop off my sarcastic friend, and it's very easy to assume that such a thing would happen. like i said in the post, he had showed signs of wearing down two years ago. isn't it possible for that trend to continue?
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Postby The Big Papi » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:26 pm

chadxor wrote:whatever. hindsight is everything. it's ridiculous you're all acting like clemens should have been considered a lock prior to this year. it's even more insane you're suggesting you expected these numbers

there were too many questions surrounding clemens this season. he wasn't as dominant as, say, randy, which hurt his stock. he also played for a team we knew would be horrible, not to mention there was talk of retirement

TWO years ago he was already written off. forget that? he was simply average two years in a row and one season wasn't going to change my opinion of that

and, oh yeah, he's turnin forty freakin three in under 2 months.

personally, no regrets not picking him up. he always went too high for my tastes and i still feel people are asking unfair value. sure, he's a workhorse, but what if he gets a mild injury? any other pitcher would be out for two-three weeks while clemens would be considering early retirement


Are you talking about 2002, that would be 3 years ago, where he had 13 wins and an ERA over 4, thats the only *down* year I see recently. 2003 he was 17-9 with a 3.91 ERA and 1.21 WHIP. He followed that up with a studly year last year, going 18-4, 2.98 ERA and 1.16 WHIP. So your telling me that somehow, a *bad* year, 3 years ago, followed by 2 good/great years is going to make people write him off.

Yes players start to fade, but he only seems to be getting stronger, at worst if he isn't getting stronger, he is still a horse of a pitcher who delivers. Not sure where you get the "drop off" part, or "drop off trend".

As far as age, Bonds has been going strong minus this year, and he gets drafted even higher, age shouldn't be that big of a factor, Randy Johnson always gets drafted high and he's only a year younger than Clemens. In a redraft, age shouldn't be a big deal when the player has proven there numbers year in and year out.


Basically what i'm trying to say is, I love having Clemens on my team lol.
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Postby chadxor » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:34 pm

Mack Daddy 281 wrote:
chadxor wrote:whatever. hindsight is everything. it's ridiculous you're all acting like clemens should have been considered a lock prior to this year. it's even more insane you're suggesting you expected these numbers

there were too many questions surrounding clemens this season. he wasn't as dominant as, say, randy, which hurt his stock. he also played for a team we knew would be horrible, not to mention there was talk of retirement

TWO years ago he was already written off. forget that? he was simply average two years in a row and one season wasn't going to change my opinion of that

and, oh yeah, he's turnin forty freakin three in under 2 months.

personally, no regrets not picking him up. he always went too high for my tastes and i still feel people are asking unfair value. sure, he's a workhorse, but what if he gets a mild injury? any other pitcher would be out for two-three weeks while clemens would be considering early retirement


Are you talking about 2002, that would be 3 years ago, where he had 13 wins and an ERA over 4, thats the only *down* year I see recently. 2003 he was 17-9 with a 3.91 ERA and 1.21 WHIP. He followed that up with a studly year last year, going 18-4, 2.98 ERA and 1.16 WHIP. So your telling me that somehow, a *bad* year, 3 years ago, followed by 2 good/great years is going to make people write him off.

Yes players start to fade, but he only seems to be getting stronger, at worst if he isn't getting stronger, he is still a horse of a pitcher who delivers. Not sure where you get the "drop off" part, or "drop off trend".

As far as age, Bonds has been going strong minus this year, and he gets drafted even higher, age shouldn't be that big of a factor, Randy Johnson always gets drafted high and he's only a year younger than Clemens. In a redraft, age shouldn't be a big deal when the player has proven there numbers year in and year out.


Basically what i'm trying to say is, I love having Clemens on my team lol.


regardless of what you say, 2002/2003 were significant drop offs from clemen's normal status. it was perfectly logical to consider the possibility that 2004 was somewhat of a fluke since he had just gotten off of two years that were simply average. did he do something tremendously different in preperation for that year? no. well, except for gettin that bangin' (oh lord, did i just use the word bangin'?) vehicle

i'd love having clemens on my team. however, that's not the point; prior to this season it was not out of the question to think that there would be a pretty significant drop off. i was expecting 02/03 for 05, and since i play in keeper leagues, his value was essentially minimal
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Postby TB13 » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:42 pm

chadxor wrote:regardless of what you say, 2002/2003 were significant drop offs from clemen's normal status. it was perfectly logical to consider the possibility that 2004 was somewhat of a fluke since he had just gotten off of two years that were simply average.


Sorry, but I do not see the logic. Fin3, 3 years ago he dipped for a season. Loook at the previous 5. And look at the two since. After 5 dominating years, he had one down one. Since then, he went 17-9 with a 3.91 ERA and 1.21 WHIP in one year and 18-4, 2.98 ERA and 1.16 WHIP the next. Outside of one "down" year, he has been nearly unhittable since he left Boston. And, frankly who cares about his age? When he will begin to slow down, it's not like he is going to become a bigger version of Steve Traschel. This is Clemens we are talking about. The man is a fitness finatic. It would not shock me to see him stay in the game for another 3 years or so and win 400 games. How much of a drop-off can there be from one year? Aren't most declines gradual?
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