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Mo:The Numbers They Don't Want You To see

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Postby blankman » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:28 pm

beltrans_boy wrote:Here come wrveres and davidmarver...

I see them. They're over there. Right there!!


Oh, joy. Can't wait to hear the same argument all over again ;-7
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Postby Strasil42 » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:31 pm

blankman wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:Here come wrveres and davidmarver...

I see them. They're over there. Right there!!


Oh, joy. Can't wait to hear the same argument all over again ;-7


The right numbers are posted this time. David won't be able to add starting pitching stats this time to pad his argument.

;-D ;-D ;-D
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:40 pm

I posted already on the Hoffman vs. Rivera issue.

Rivera's got a higher peak, but Hoyt Wilhelm is still considered by most to be the best reliever ever. If Rivera sustains this level (or even a lower level) for another 5-7 years, he'll top Wilhelm, imo.
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Postby GiantFan666 » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:50 pm

nsulham wrote:Image


Well done! ;-D
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Postby Strasil42 » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:06 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:I posted already on the Hoffman vs. Rivera issue.

Rivera's got a higher peak, but Hoyt Wilhelm is still considered by most to be the best reliever ever. If Rivera sustains this level (or even a lower level) for another 5-7 years, he'll top Wilhelm, imo.


do you happen to have wilhelm's numbers??

i dont think ive ever seen them.
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Postby Tavish » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:40 pm

All-time its Wilhelm hands down. Its not really Rivera or Hoffman's fault, but the difference between pitching 130+ innings in relief at the highest level compared with pitching 75+ innings at the highest level makes the world of difference.
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Postby Kingctb27 » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:58 pm

beltrans_boy wrote:Here come wrveres and davidmarver...

I see them. They're over there. Right there!!

Great. We have to hear the whole Hoffman/Rivera Crap again. :-°
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:34 pm

Strasil42 wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:I posted already on the Hoffman vs. Rivera issue.

Rivera's got a higher peak, but Hoyt Wilhelm is still considered by most to be the best reliever ever. If Rivera sustains this level (or even a lower level) for another 5-7 years, he'll top Wilhelm, imo.


do you happen to have wilhelm's numbers??

i dont think ive ever seen them.


http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wilheho01.shtml

There are a few reasons why I'd still rank Wilhelm above Mariano. His IP per season and the number of years he sustained his excellence are still much higher than Rivera's. Rivera's rate stats are better, although Wilhelm comes close to matching what Rivera did during his age 38-48 seasons. So, 2000 IP at 50% better than league average, to me, still tops 750 IP at 90% better than league average.

But if Mo can sustain it even at close to that level for another 500-600 IP, he'd be up there.
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