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Eric Chavez is OFFICIALLY Back.

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Postby nuggets » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:07 pm

beltrans_boy wrote:
Re-read my post. I never "excluded" any years. I simply stated the trend of positive growth from 2001 to 2004. 2003 is an outlier, for whatever reason


Exclude, give less weight too, call an outlier, whatever you get the picture.

beltrans_boy wrote:You seem to want to argue about the semantics of my argument while ignoring the numbers that are right in front of your face. I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes here. Save your conspiracy theories for something worthwhile.


I think "pulling the wool over peoples eyes" is a correct analogy for your exclusion of FRAR an FRAR2 in fielding stats(although I have not read your most recent post) , and not accounting for Tejada's position scarcity in relation to hitting SSs.

:-)
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Postby beltrans_boy » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:08 pm

nuggets wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:
Re-read my post. I never "excluded" any years. I simply stated the trend of positive growth from 2001 to 2004. 2003 is an outlier, for whatever reason.


Exclude, give less weight too, call an outlier, whatever you get the picture.


It is an outlier. I acknowledged that. Are you just stupid?

nuggets wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:You seem to want to argue about the semantics of my argument while ignoring the numbers that are right in front of your face. I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes here. Save your conspiracy theories for something worthwhile.


I think "pulling the wool over peoples eyes" is a correct analogy for your exclusion of FRAR an FRAR2 in fielding stats(although I have not read your most recent post).

:-)


Do you know why I didn't use FRAR and FRAR2 in my analysis? BECAUSE THEY ARE ENTIRELY DEPENDENT ON THE POSITION THAT THEY PLAY! Here is the definition:

BaseballProspectus.com wrote:Fielding runs above replacement. A fielding statistic, where a replacement player is meant to be approximately equal to the lowest-ranking player at that position, fielding wise, in the majors. Average players at different positions have different FRAR values, which depend on the defensive value of the position; an average shortstop has more FRAR than an average left fielder.


Do you understand? Read the last sentence. Read it again. Do you get it? FRAR and FRAR2 cannot be used to compare a 3B and a SS. I don't know why this concept is so hard to grasp...

nuggets wrote:and not accounting for Tejada's position scarcity in relation to hitting SSs


I already explained to you my reasoning behind this. I'm not going to explain myself again. Go and read it again.

Do you have the reading comprehension of a catchers mitt or something? This is getting monotonous. I'm getting tired of repeating myself over and over again. Please get it this time.
[size=10]"Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument." [/size]
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Postby ensanimal » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:29 pm

beltrans_boy wrote:
nuggets wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:
Re-read my post. I never "excluded" any years. I simply stated the trend of positive growth from 2001 to 2004. 2003 is an outlier, for whatever reason.


Exclude, give less weight too, call an outlier, whatever you get the picture.


It is an outlier. I acknowledged that. Are you just stupid?

nuggets wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:You seem to want to argue about the semantics of my argument while ignoring the numbers that are right in front of your face. I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes here. Save your conspiracy theories for something worthwhile.


I think "pulling the wool over peoples eyes" is a correct analogy for your exclusion of FRAR an FRAR2 in fielding stats(although I have not read your most recent post).

:-)


Do you know why I didn't use FRAR and FRAR2 in my analysis? BECAUSE THEY ARE ENTIRELY DEPENDENT ON THE POSITION THAT THEY PLAY! Here is the definition:

BaseballProspectus.com wrote:Fielding runs above replacement. A fielding statistic, where a replacement player is meant to be approximately equal to the lowest-ranking player at that position, fielding wise, in the majors. Average players at different positions have different FRAR values, which depend on the defensive value of the position; an average shortstop has more FRAR than an average left fielder.


Do you understand? Read the last sentence. Read it again. Do you get it? FRAR and FRAR2 cannot be used to compare a 3B and a SS. I don't know why this concept is so hard to grasp...

nuggets wrote:and not accounting for Tejada's position scarcity in relation to hitting SSs


I already explained to you my reasoning behind this. I'm not going to explain myself again. Go and read it again.

Do you have the reading comprehension of a catchers mitt or something? This is getting monotonous. I'm getting tired of repeating myself over and over again. Please get it this time.


this would probably be better for you if it was handled through PM's. it's getting kind of touchy in here :-o
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Postby WittyC » Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:00 am

On a scale from one to stolen thread...
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Postby nuggets » Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:20 am

Do you know why I didn't use FRAR and FRAR2 in my analysis? BECAUSE THEY ARE ENTIRELY DEPENDENT ON THE POSITION THAT THEY PLAY! Here is the definition:

BaseballProspectus.com wrote:
Fielding runs above replacement. A fielding statistic, where a replacement player is meant to be approximately equal to the lowest-ranking player at that position, fielding wise, in the majors. Average players at different positions have different FRAR values, which depend on the defensive value of the position; an average shortstop has more FRAR than an average left fielder.


but what about the rest of the definition?

.....an average catcher is set to 39 runs above replacement per 162 games, first base to 10, second to 29, third to 22, short to 33, center field to 24, left and right to 14.


does that not settle the adjustment?
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Postby nuggets » Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:31 am

http://fantasybaseballcafe.com/forums/p ... a879cae6b3

ensanimal wrote:
this would probably be better for you if it was handled through PM's. it's getting kind of touchy in here :-o


I have tried:

nuggets wrote:I hope you can show me more about Sabermetrics and I hope you will open your mind to what "thehat" and I have as far as practical knowledge. Peace offering?


Yes Hat, I compared you practical knowledge in relation to Tejada to mine. I bow down to you as far as total baseball knowledge is concerned.

beltrans_boy wrote:I don't carry grudges, and I'm down for peace, but I have one request...

Go into the "Heretic" thread and admit that I'm right.
;-D


nuggets wrote:Ah, yes young one. That's all you are after isn't it.

No man, because right now Tejada actaully is the more valuable baseball player when you look at the big picture i.g. everything a player contributes! It's a slim margin but one thing- consider his hitting relative to position as you do fielding..... and the gap widens. Sorry, you won't even get respect from your tenured sabermetric colleagues until you do so.


beltrans_boy wrote:Ok, no peace.

I'm out.


nuggets wrote:No peace unless I do what you want? Yea you are "all for peace" man Lol, ever hear the term "agree to disagree"


beltrans_boy wrote:I prefer the term "unconditional surrender"

[/quote]
Last edited by nuggets on Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby nuggets » Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:33 am

davidmarver wrote:(High-fives Beltrans_boy)


Jeez you like BB marver, are you the same guy? You've been giving it too him all over these threads. No, you gotta be BFF's, right? Come on, laugh along with the South Park fun.
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Postby DGroundhog » Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:54 am

0-fer again.

Oh well, he was back for a little while.
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* Steroid induced record
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Postby beltrans_boy » Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:33 am

nuggets wrote:
Do you know why I didn't use FRAR and FRAR2 in my analysis? BECAUSE THEY ARE ENTIRELY DEPENDENT ON THE POSITION THAT THEY PLAY! Here is the definition:

BaseballProspectus.com wrote:
Fielding runs above replacement. A fielding statistic, where a replacement player is meant to be approximately equal to the lowest-ranking player at that position, fielding wise, in the majors. Average players at different positions have different FRAR values, which depend on the defensive value of the position; an average shortstop has more FRAR than an average left fielder.


but what about the rest of the definition?

.....an average catcher is set to 39 runs above replacement per 162 games, first base to 10, second to 29, third to 22, short to 33, center field to 24, left and right to 14.


does that not settle the adjustment?


Well, it does "settle the adjustment" but I'm not sure it settles it in your favor. Let's look at the equalized Fielding Runs Above Replacement (FRAR2) for Tejada and Chavez per 162 games:

Chavez: 22.96 FRAR
Tejada: 27.65 FRAR

When we equalize these statistics (using the metrics that you've provided), it comes out like this:

Chavez: 0.96 FRAR (above average)
Tejada: -2.35 FRAR (below average)

It's just another metric where Chavez comes out on top. I hesitated to use this in the first place, because I figured the raw numbers would be misleading and people would accuse me of doctoring the numbers in Chavez' favor.
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Postby DGroundhog » Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:00 am

Ruh-roh. From Rotoworld.

Eric Chavez is DHing tonight because his right shoulder is becoming more of a problem than usual.
Chavez, who has had dealt with some soreness for years, had an MRI exam Monday that revealed significant wear and tear. He should be able to make it through the season OK, but he might need surgery in October. The plan is for him to DH until Friday and then probably return to third base. Keith Ginter is filling in for him tonight. With Chavez DHing, Scott Hatteberg and Dan Johnson will have to continue to split time at first base. Neither is in the lineup tonight against a lefty.
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