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Medical Marijuana gets snuffed

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Postby RugbyD » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:06 pm

Madison wrote:Ok, so way back when, the federal government decided that pot should be illegal, and put out rules regarding it.


Yes. We can infer by their actions that they knew they could not outright ban it under the powers granted by the Constitution. In 1937 they resorted to trying to regulate/tax it out of existence without actually banning it. These efforts were struck down as unconstitutional. Think of it as an "Enron effort".

Madison wrote:However, there was a loophole that allowed marijuana to be used for medical purposes. Some states and individuals exploited that loophole and the federal government looked the other way since there was actually a use while dealing with glaucoma patients.


No, I have no clue where you're getting this from. There is no 'loophole' in the 1937 Act or the Constitution.

Madison wrote:Now that there is no medical use for marijuana...


Did you even bother to read the top half of my page 5 post? If so, it is inconceivable that you cannot find a prescription-based use and I didn't even get to the glaucoma use. I plainly laid it out and would love to hear a rebuttal if you have one.

Madison wrote:Ahhhh........but they didn't pass a bill to close the loophole, so that makes it unconstitutional.


Again, not sure where this loophole idea is coming from. In the commerce clause the Constitution permits the federal govt to address interstate trade. In the case at hand, not only was there nothing interstate about it, there wasn't even any trade. This makes it a state issue. Feel free to refer to the Tenth Amendment if you have any lingering doubt.

Madison wrote:Yes, no, or did I miss the point completely?


Whatever you were smoking when you read my post, I want some.

Looking forward to hearing from you....
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:33 pm

Madison wrote:
funatic wrote:
Madison wrote:
I've known people who smoked 20+ years and then just set them down and walked away. Never smoked a single cigarette after deciding to quit. I've also known several people who smoked once and never smoked again. To say point blank that cigarettes ARE addictive, is false.



Based on what you are saying, NOTHING in the world is addictive... There are bound to be people who will not find an object addictive. So why is addictive even a word?


I've had the addictive discussion several times and was hoping that this discussion wouldn't go there, but somehow I knew it would. It's never pretty either due to so many people that allow themselves to become addicted to things, but here we go........

You cut right to the center of it all ;-D . I don't believe in being addicted to something. It's all choices. Deciding to smoke, drink, gamble, steal, etc, are all choices. No one will die if those things fall off the face of the planet. No one has to have them in order to live. Allowing yourself to become addicted to something, or more like allowing yourself to believe you're addicted to something and have to have it in order to live, is only a weakness inside the person who allowed it to happen to themselves.

Now usually comes the borderline flamefest where people try to explain how someone would die if they didn't choose to light another cigarette, choose to take another drink, choose to place another bet, choose to shoplift again, etc, etc, etc. Have at it guys, it's nothing I haven't heard before. :-°

Sorry, you are wrong. Alcoholics can die from alcohol withdrawal. Certain things are chemically addictive, thats a scientific fact, there is no way around it.
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Postby emb0lus » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:58 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:
Madison wrote:
funatic wrote:
Madison wrote:
I've known people who smoked 20+ years and then just set them down and walked away. Never smoked a single cigarette after deciding to quit. I've also known several people who smoked once and never smoked again. To say point blank that cigarettes ARE addictive, is false.



Based on what you are saying, NOTHING in the world is addictive... There are bound to be people who will not find an object addictive. So why is addictive even a word?


I've had the addictive discussion several times and was hoping that this discussion wouldn't go there, but somehow I knew it would. It's never pretty either due to so many people that allow themselves to become addicted to things, but here we go........

You cut right to the center of it all ;-D . I don't believe in being addicted to something. It's all choices. Deciding to smoke, drink, gamble, steal, etc, are all choices. No one will die if those things fall off the face of the planet. No one has to have them in order to live. Allowing yourself to become addicted to something, or more like allowing yourself to believe you're addicted to something and have to have it in order to live, is only a weakness inside the person who allowed it to happen to themselves.

Now usually comes the borderline flamefest where people try to explain how someone would die if they didn't choose to light another cigarette, choose to take another drink, choose to place another bet, choose to shoplift again, etc, etc, etc. Have at it guys, it's nothing I haven't heard before. :-°

Sorry, you are wrong. Alcoholics can die from alcohol withdrawal. Certain things are chemically addictive, thats a scientific fact, there is no way around it.


Addiction pertains to a physiologic or psychologic dependence. I think Mad may be saying that anything that is psychologically dependent is a choice.

You are right Cubs, alcohol just so happens to be one of the most physiologically (non-prescription) addictive drugs as evidenced by the withdrawal profile. Of all the street drugs, alcohol is the only one where death comes into play in withdrawal.

If i were to follow my own train of thinking, anything with withdrawal symptomatology would be then considered physiologically addictive, therefore, nicotine, caffeine, opiates can become addictive. marijuana to my knowledge does not cause withdrawal and coincidentally neither does cocaine. BUT, that is a general rule. Some people do not have withdrawal from nicotine or caffeine or alcohol and in some it does not even matter the amount or duration of use.
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Postby WharfRat » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:06 pm

Madison wrote: I've known people who smoked 20+ years and then just set them down and walked away. Never smoked a single cigarette after deciding to quit. I've also known several people who smoked once and never smoked again. To say point blank that cigarettes ARE addictive, is false.

However, due to the majority of people having absolutely no willpower in today's world, I do concede that smoking "can be" extremely addictive and probably the biggest risk for most people to take as far as allowing themselves to get hooked on a product.


The tobacco companies engineer cigarettes to be addictive. Nicotine is a physically addictive substance, it goes so far as to alter certain neurological activities in the brain that end in addiction. Tobacco companies sell products with nicotine, hence these products ARE ADDICTIVE. I'm not real sure where you're getting that they're not addictive, and one person who quit smoking after 20 years doesn't equal proof that cigarettes aren't addictive. :-? People quit everyday, the point is that cigarettes are chemically structured so that you want to keep smoking after a certain point. I mean, the addictive qualities of nicotine are pretty much established.

And getting back to the point, cigarettes interact with your body one way, mj another, and one if much more addictive than the other.

EDIT: Wanted to add - Mad had asked for a good reason to allow mj, and I'd meant to post this before but forgot: 1) This is supposed to be a FREE COUNTRY. Philosophically, we can debate on whether or not it really is, but if there's no reason to ban something, it shouldn't be banned. People have the right to partake in activities that don't harm a soul. I'd always thought the burden of proof was on the accuser. 2) The whole reasoning behind it being banned in the first place is FLAWED. If a law is unconstitutional, or simply built up on false pretenses, then it ought to be struck down. Simple as that. If there were legit reasons, that's one thing. But it never should have been banned in the first place. And now we have people scared of a plant. What is the world coming to?? :-°
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Postby acsguitar » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:24 pm

Lets hear an argument from a professional

Image


Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Some call it tampee
Some call it the weed
Some call it Marijuana
Some of them call it Ganja

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Singer smoke it
And players of instruments too
Legalize it, yeah, yeah
That's the best thing you can do
Doctors smoke it
Nurses smoke it
Judges smoke it
Even the lawyers too

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

It's good for the flu
It's good for asthma
Good for tuberculosis
Even umara composis

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Bird eat it
And they leave it
Fowls eat it
Goats love to play with it
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Postby WharfRat » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:12 pm

acsguitar wrote:Lets hear an argument from a professional

Image


Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Some call it tampee
Some call it the weed
Some call it Marijuana
Some of them call it Ganja

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Singer smoke it
And players of instruments too
Legalize it, yeah, yeah
That's the best thing you can do
Doctors smoke it
Nurses smoke it
Judges smoke it
Even the lawyers too

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

It's good for the flu
It's good for asthma
Good for tuberculosis
Even umara composis

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Bird eat it
And they leave it
Fowls eat it
Goats love to play with it


LMAO. ;-D Love that last verse. :-?

Who is that, Peter Tosh?
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Postby funatic » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:19 pm

WharfRat wrote:
LMAO. ;-D Love that last verse. :-?

Who is that, Peter Tosh?


;-D
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Postby acsguitar » Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:09 pm

Yep Peter Tosh...he's cool... IMO Marley is somewhat overrated...bands like Peter Tosh, Steel Pulse, Israel Vibrations are better IMO..

Steel Pulse is defnitly my favorite reggae band.
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Postby LooseCannon » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:45 pm

Everyone's always looking for a way to do drugs.
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[url=http://www.mp3players4free.com/default.aspx?r=681536] www.mp3players4free.com[/url]
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Postby JustAnotherYanksFan » Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:57 am

I've just been reading over this thread - it's certainly been interesting, and enlightening also. So sorry to resurrect a 5-day old thread, but there were a few things I wanted to add.

First of all, one thing has been bothering me as I've been reading. Some have argued that if alcohol's worse than pot, and alcohol's legal, then pot should be legal. But since the potential negative effects of alcohol have been repeatedly stated, the more logical expansion from that train of thought is that alcohol should be made illegal, not that pot should necessarily be made legal.

Also, as for the addiction issue - as some have already explained, there are two types of addiction: psychological and physiological. Anything can be psychologically addicting, but pot is definitely not physically addicting, and compared to pretty much everything else out there it's not very addictive at all.

However, in terms of coming up with concrete reasons why it should be legalized, I think the best reason has already been stated. Why infringe upon civil rights when there's no need to? But in case anyone needs a few more reasons (and I apologize for restating some that have already been said), then here are a few:

1. If it's legalized, then the "gateway" effect will be nullified, since as some people have already pointed out, what causes the whole gateway thing is that the same people who supply pot also supply harder drugs. If people no longer get pot through illegal suppliers, then they won't have such a natural transition to harder drugs.

2. The government can regulate it. This mains that they can control THC levels, and probably add some kind of filters to make it less damaging to people's lungs. Also, there's no longer the risk of having other drugs mixed into it.

3. It would be a source of income for the government (assuming it were taxed). Okay, for some reason this doesn't seem like such a strong point to me, but I figured I'd throw it in there. Maybe there can be a stipulation that all money raised from the tax on marijuana must be used to solve world hunger. ;-7 Or something like that.
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