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Medical Marijuana gets snuffed

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Postby Nomar4prez » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:35 pm

I'm tired of people saying pot isn't addictive. Anything that gives you high, whether it be pot, crack, alcohol, cigarettes(buzz), food, gambling, or roller coasters can be addictive.
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Postby WharfRat » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:44 pm

Nomar4prez wrote:I'm tired of people saying pot isn't addictive. Anything that gives you high, whether it be pot, crack, alcohol, cigarettes(buzz), food, gambling, or roller coasters can be addictive.


However, cigarettes are engineered to be addictive, whereas those other things aren't.
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Postby Nomar4prez » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:48 pm

WharfRat wrote:
Nomar4prez wrote:I'm tired of people saying pot isn't addictive. Anything that gives you high, whether it be pot, crack, alcohol, cigarettes(buzz), food, gambling, or roller coasters can be addictive.


However, cigarettes are engineered to be addictive, whereas those other things aren't.


They're engineered to be MORE addictive than they would be without the nicotine. But, if you take the nicotine away, people would still be addicted to the buzz experienced.
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Postby WharfRat » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:53 pm

Nomar4prez wrote:
WharfRat wrote:
Nomar4prez wrote:I'm tired of people saying pot isn't addictive. Anything that gives you high, whether it be pot, crack, alcohol, cigarettes(buzz), food, gambling, or roller coasters can be addictive.


However, cigarettes are engineered to be addictive, whereas those other things aren't.


They're engineered to be MORE addictive than they would be without the nicotine. But, if you take the nicotine away, people would still be addicted to the buzz experienced.


I just noticed that you said "can be" addictive. Cigarettes with nicotine ARE addictive, no matter who you are, they're in a different category altogether.

And talking about a cigarette without nicotine is like talking about a hamburger with no beef.
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Postby Madison » Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RugbyD wrote:I know it's been a while since page 1, but I'll gladly requote myself again:

RugbyD wrote:The federal law banning pot and other drugs is based, in some form, on the interstate commerce clause, which is the basis for much federal law, mostly specious in nature, but I digress.

The crux of the case was not the general legality of weed, but more about a state's rights to regulate intrastate trade. The mj in question was entirely homegrown, with all aspects of the process handled within state borders. It is the primary obligation of the states to establish their own criminal code to deal with such matters. The states in question have done just that, no more no less. And above all, these state laws were with respect to medical purposes only, not even recreational.


As much of the dissenting opinion acknowledges, this ruling can easily be construed to eliminate the concept of federalism from the construct of the criminal code. Profligate amounts of legal commentary to the same effect have been written since the decision came down.

edit: something from reason mag that shows another angle of the inanity of the legal contortion governing this issue.

In its recent decision upholding the federal government's authority to pluck marijuana from the hands of desperately ill people who use it as a medicine, the U.S. Supreme Court noted in passing that "most domestic drug regulations prior to 1970 generally came in the guise of revenue laws." That's a puzzling fact if, as the Court now insists, the power to "regulate Commerce...among the several States" includes the power to ban certain plants and their products from backyards and dresser drawers throughout the nation.

As the Court explained, the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937 "did not outlaw the possession or sale of marijuana outright." Instead it imposed tax, registration, and reporting requirements that made legal possession of the drug prohibitively expensive and burdensome. Members of Congress would not have taken this complex, indirect approach (aspects of which ultimately were ruled unconstitutional) if they thought they could get away with a straightforward ban simply by citing the Commerce Clause.

The fact that Congress felt it had to disguise its first marijuana law as a tax measure suggests how far we have traveled since the 1930s from the plain meaning of the Commerce Clause, which has been transformed into an all-purpose excuse for federal meddling. As a result, individuals oppressed by an overbearing national government cannot realistically expect Congress to explain how its actions are authorized by the Constitution. Instead they must search for a constitutional provision that protects the specific freedom they wish to exercise—precisely the situation the Framers sought to avoid by creating a federal government of limited and enumerated powers.


Ok, so way back when, the federal government decided that pot should be illegal, and put out rules regarding it.

However, there was a loophole that allowed marijuana to be used for medical purposes.

Some states and individuals exploited that loophole and the federal government looked the other way since there was actually a use while dealing with glaucoma patients.

Now that there is no medical use for marijuana, the federal government has decided to enforce their prior ruling about marijuana.

Ahhhh........but they didn't pass a bill to close the loophole, so that makes it unconstitutional.

Yes, no, or did I miss the point completely?
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Postby Madison » Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:56 pm

WharfRat wrote:
Nomar4prez wrote:
WharfRat wrote:
Nomar4prez wrote:I'm tired of people saying pot isn't addictive. Anything that gives you high, whether it be pot, crack, alcohol, cigarettes(buzz), food, gambling, or roller coasters can be addictive.


However, cigarettes are engineered to be addictive, whereas those other things aren't.


They're engineered to be MORE addictive than they would be without the nicotine. But, if you take the nicotine away, people would still be addicted to the buzz experienced.


I just noticed that you said "can be" addictive. Cigarettes with nicotine ARE addictive, no matter who you are, they're in a different category altogether.

And talking about a cigarette without nicotine is like talking about a hamburger with no beef.


I've known people who smoked 20+ years and then just set them down and walked away. Never smoked a single cigarette after deciding to quit. I've also known several people who smoked once and never smoked again. To say point blank that cigarettes ARE addictive, is false.

However, due to the majority of people having absolutely no willpower in today's world, I do concede that smoking "can be" extremely addictive and probably the biggest risk for most people to take as far as allowing themselves to get hooked on a product.
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Postby funatic » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:04 pm

Madison wrote:
I've known people who smoked 20+ years and then just set them down and walked away. Never smoked a single cigarette after deciding to quit. I've also known several people who smoked once and never smoked again. To say point blank that cigarettes ARE addictive, is false.



Based on what you are saying, NOTHING in the world is addictive... There are bound to be people who will not find an object addictive. So why is addictive even a word?
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Postby Madison » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:17 pm

funatic wrote:
Madison wrote:
I've known people who smoked 20+ years and then just set them down and walked away. Never smoked a single cigarette after deciding to quit. I've also known several people who smoked once and never smoked again. To say point blank that cigarettes ARE addictive, is false.



Based on what you are saying, NOTHING in the world is addictive... There are bound to be people who will not find an object addictive. So why is addictive even a word?


I've had the addictive discussion several times and was hoping that this discussion wouldn't go there, but somehow I knew it would. It's never pretty either due to so many people that allow themselves to become addicted to things, but here we go........

You cut right to the center of it all ;-D . I don't believe in being addicted to something. It's all choices. Deciding to smoke, drink, gamble, steal, etc, are all choices. No one will die if those things fall off the face of the planet. No one has to have them in order to live. Allowing yourself to become addicted to something, or more like allowing yourself to believe you're addicted to something and have to have it in order to live, is only a weakness inside the person who allowed it to happen to themselves.

Now usually comes the borderline flamefest where people try to explain how someone would die if they didn't choose to light another cigarette, choose to take another drink, choose to place another bet, choose to shoplift again, etc, etc, etc. Have at it guys, it's nothing I haven't heard before. :-°
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Postby Nomar4prez » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:16 pm

Madison wrote:
funatic wrote:
Madison wrote:
I've known people who smoked 20+ years and then just set them down and walked away. Never smoked a single cigarette after deciding to quit. I've also known several people who smoked once and never smoked again. To say point blank that cigarettes ARE addictive, is false.



Based on what you are saying, NOTHING in the world is addictive... There are bound to be people who will not find an object addictive. So why is addictive even a word?


I've had the addictive discussion several times and was hoping that this discussion wouldn't go there, but somehow I knew it would. It's never pretty either due to so many people that allow themselves to become addicted to things, but here we go........

You cut right to the center of it all ;-D . I don't believe in being addicted to something. It's all choices. Deciding to smoke, drink, gamble, steal, etc, are all choices. No one will die if those things fall off the face of the planet. No one has to have them in order to live. Allowing yourself to become addicted to something, or more like allowing yourself to believe you're addicted to something and have to have it in order to live, is only a weakness inside the person who allowed it to happen to themselves.

Now usually comes the borderline flamefest where people try to explain how someone would die if they didn't choose to light another cigarette, choose to take another drink, choose to place another bet, choose to shoplift again, etc, etc, etc. Have at it guys, it's nothing I haven't heard before. :-°


While I agree with most of what you say, being addicted to something is mental. Let's say you drink heavily for 3 years, and then you stop. You're brain will have imbalance, and you'll feel sick, and just not "right." While I do believe that it's still a matter of willpower, there is a mental dependency on these things(which can be overcome).
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Postby Strasil42 » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:23 pm

Fireball Express wrote:Madison Wrote:
Comparisons to cigarettes are not even close to comparing the same things


I have to agree with you here. Cigarettes are addictive. Pot is not.


;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D
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