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What to do with someone who is ruining a money league?

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Postby TheYanks04 » Mon May 30, 2005 1:04 pm

A few points:

1. If he paid and is otherwise following the rules and is doing nothing but voicing his stronh obections to a deal, then he has every right to do so and no action is warranted.


2. If he is voicing his objections in an abusive, rude, crude or otherwise unciivil manner, then locking him out of message board posting is warranted, but not expulsion from the league unless it is extremely abusive. I always include a civility clause in my league constitution whereby I state that the Commish may take any action he deems necessary to maintain civil discourse between owners as I do not tolerate BS on my league boards. They want to trash talk and BS, do it privately via emails.


3. If it is a trade vote league and the veto number could not be achieved, he is out of luck. Compalin all he wants, no rules are broken and tell him if he does not like the league he is more than welcome to leave voluntarily or not return next season. His money is non-refundable. I might add that if the Commish lets too many owners get ticked off about really bad trades, he will lose a lot of owners and things sort of correct themselves.


As a side note, this sort of thing happened in a non-money keeper league someone else commishes that I am in. I have a pretty good team but the commish himself was involved in a ludicrous trade that fell one vote short of the 6 needed for veto because we had 3 dead teams and 2 owners on vacation/unavailable. All non-involved present members voted for veto but the commish did not want to bend and applied the letter of the law. So be it was my response. Not going to argue. Simply intend to play elsewhere next year.
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Postby matthew18 » Mon May 30, 2005 2:29 pm

I'll tell you what I hate...it's owners like Davus who try so hard to convince everyone why their trade is fair and should go through (when it's not). Walker is not in the same league as GA. YOu can try to convince yourself and the rest of us that he COULD be the next Gagne, but c'mon, your trade is a joke and you know it...otherwise you wouldn't be trying so hard to convince us the opposite.....just my two cents.
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Postby Rowand » Mon May 30, 2005 2:51 pm

matthew18 wrote:I'll tell you what I hate...it's owners like Davus who try so hard to convince everyone why their trade is fair and should go through (when it's not). Walker is not in the same league as GA. YOu can try to convince yourself and the rest of us that he COULD be the next Gagne, but c'mon, your trade is a joke and you know it...otherwise you wouldn't be trying so hard to convince us the opposite.....just my two cents.


I agree use are both to blame. I Aaron Rowand feels you are guilty. Your fate and punishment will now be decided by the rest of the FBC posters. I would also like to say that this "Rohan" person be cleared of all charges. Garrtet anderson for tyler walker is a joke! it makes me puke up the hot dogs i just ate! anyway happy memorial day. Does any 1 actually know what memorial day is?
AAROONNNNN RO WAND!
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Postby davus » Mon May 30, 2005 2:56 pm

You guys must be buddies of Rohan. Very subtle guys. :-D

If you are in my league, you can vote and the trade will be blocked. Simple as that. No reason to ever get into personal insults over a trade cause people value them all differently.
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Postby gws226 » Mon May 30, 2005 3:05 pm

matthew18 wrote:I'll tell you what I hate...it's owners like Davus who try so hard to convince everyone why their trade is fair and should go through (when it's not). Walker is not in the same league as GA. YOu can try to convince yourself and the rest of us that he COULD be the next Gagne, but c'mon, your trade is a joke and you know it...otherwise you wouldn't be trying so hard to convince us the opposite.....just my two cents.


Would you trade Gagne straight up for GA?

Ya, that trade is pretty weak but alot more analysis would be required before I would cry foul on the deal. Closers are treated like gold in leagues.

Is GA the 5th outfielder on someone's team? Was this trade accepted right around the time that walker had rung off 6 saves in a row without allowing a run?

I think Walker is a bad trade, by an ill informed owner too, but if he has a stacked OF and is desperate for saves I can see owners giving up extra to land him.

This sounds like a classic buy low/ sell high scenario. One that most cafe owners would love to make, and would reject in a sec if their position was reversed.
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Postby josebach » Mon May 30, 2005 3:59 pm

davus wrote:You guys must be buddies of Rohan. Very subtle guys. :-D

If you are in my league, you can vote and the trade will be blocked. Simple as that. No reason to ever get into personal insults over a trade cause people value them all differently.


I've never heard of "Rohan" before this thread, and by the sounds of him, I don't care if I ever do. That's not the point. As the commissioner, it's your responsibility to stop unfair trades, not take part in them.

Look at it this way. If you had the other guy's team, would you trade away Anderson for Walker? If you can't answer "yes" to this question, then you shouldn't have made the trade. As a commissioner, that's the approach you have to take.
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Postby fraquar » Mon May 30, 2005 4:18 pm

I'm basing my opinion after reading this entire thread.

I don't think that that is a fair trade. I wouldn't if I was a commisioner and I wouldn't as an owner if I had to take it at face value. The simple fact is that Walker's production in his career at his age leads me to think he may not be pitching very long (high WHIP, high ERA going into this year as a reliever, let alone getting a closer role). After all, he wasn't the first option as closer before the season started and he more than likely wouldn't be before the season ends.

Walker 's a stopgap - plain and simple and has no long-term fantasy value (the criteria most often used in evauluating keeper league trades - and something a commisioner or any owner should have judiciously exercised in this case) just as he had no fantasy value whatsoever before the season started. From that point of view I can see why Rohan may be up in arms over this.

I would however find it hard that if Rohan had followed the veto procedure that he could not come up with 2 other owners who see the same thing. Unless he has completely alienated himself from day one and people let this ride because of that fact - or that the league is so close knit he is viewed as an outsider (that could be considered collusion on a grand scale) - and the commish played on this to get the deal done.

I am wary of this situation because the commish is not a third party to this issue. That makes it his word against Rohan's at face value without Rohan's ability to defend himself. It also makes his reason for justifying the trade biased - it was his reason for pursuing the trade, not necessarily a reason to justify it as a neutral party with veto power. Everything about Rohan being a nusiance is just heresay as far as I'm concerned because we only have the commish's side of the story. I'd love to see all the message posts to get a better feel for the league atmosphere and what Rohan got himself into before I pass judgement on Rohan.

The timing of this post also suggests that this deal was consummmated AFTER the deal sending Hawkins to SF was completed. Further lending theory to the idea that this has nothing to do with whether the commish would have approved this deal had it came to him - he's trying to do what any other owner would do in this situation - exploit a situation.

This is NOT a commisioner issue. This is a dispute between an owner who exploited a situation and an owner who sees that situation for what it is. Don't ask us to defend you as a commisioner. An owner who made a profitable trade yes, but not as a commisioner.

To use this forum as a bully pulpit to justify a very lopsided trade and hide behind the commissioner's cloak is shady. To fly against what most people have stated in this thread, I'd be very wary of joining any league with Davus as the commish. I'm getting the feeling this Rohan may not be such a bad lot.
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Postby davus » Mon May 30, 2005 5:16 pm

Thanks for your input. Actually the trade was accepted prior to the Hawkins deal and prior to Walker having a little rough spot for a few games. This is a league with extended categories and using rototimes dollar value calculator Anderson has NEGATIVE value in our league whereas Walker had some positive value because of saves and at the time his ratio's were better than average.

I wasn't going to mention who it was until several members said that I should spread the word. Interestingly enough, I posted a thread on this trade in the trades forum and most people said there was nothing wrong with the trade although a few said they would probably not accept it.

Our veto process involves another veteran manager to co-commish in essense for situations exactly like this involving disputes that involve the other co-commish.

Anyway, the situation is over, the 15-20 messages by Rohan and the many responses by myself and the other owners have been deleted and hopefully we can start afresh. This thread was not an attempt to justify the trade as I don't believe I have to. It was accepted by another party after several offers back and forth and passed league review with only one complaint.

The point was that this type of issue should have been handled according to league rules and not by swearing at everybody and demanding his entry fee back.

Thanks for everyone's input.

P.S. To the person who said that I shouldn't have offered this trade, I completely disagree. The commish also wants to win the league and should be allowed to attempt to sell high and buy low just like any other manager. That's how baseball works. I don't decide if a trade is fair or not, that goes through the league, so I don't feel like this is an illegitimate deal whatsoever.
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Postby davidmarver » Mon May 30, 2005 6:28 pm

davus wrote:Thanks for your input. Actually the trade was accepted prior to the Hawkins deal and prior to Walker having a little rough spot for a few games. This is a league with extended categories and using rototimes dollar value calculator Anderson has NEGATIVE value in our league whereas Walker had some positive value because of saves and at the time his ratio's were better than average.

Have they added OPS and holds into that calculator or does it still not allow for those statistics? JW cause I wanted to measure a few trades in my league and I remember before they didn't have it.
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Postby davus » Mon May 30, 2005 9:24 pm

davidmarver wrote:
davus wrote:Thanks for your input. Actually the trade was accepted prior to the Hawkins deal and prior to Walker having a little rough spot for a few games. This is a league with extended categories and using rototimes dollar value calculator Anderson has NEGATIVE value in our league whereas Walker had some positive value because of saves and at the time his ratio's were better than average.

Have they added OPS and holds into that calculator or does it still not allow for those statistics? JW cause I wanted to measure a few trades in my league and I remember before they didn't have it.


They don't have OPS, but you can add slugging pct. which is about as close as you can get...can also add OBP which together I guess could cover it but I think it actually then makes OPS worth double what it should be. I used slugging and left it at that. ;-D
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