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What to do with someone who is ruining a money league?

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Postby davus » Mon May 30, 2005 12:23 am

cmchampa2 wrote:Wow, Tyler Walker for Garrett Anderson? Might someone be a little desperate for relievers?


Yeah, it called strategy and selling high while buying low. Walker had just saved like 7 games in a row and hadn't given up any runs when the trade was accepted.

Anyway, Anderson is not THAT good anyway, especially in a league like ours that counts OPS and triples. So far he's only above replacement value in RBI's and Avg. 2 out of 8 cats is not really all that impressive, is it?
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Postby ukrneal » Mon May 30, 2005 2:52 am

Did he show any signs of this behavior before the trade and were there other incidents that maybe he didn't share with you?

I ask, because this is important.

First, the trade is bogus. In other words, a hot RP with no track record is not an even trade for a consistant producer (who can easily be a top 50 player, and isn't doing too badly as it is). This trade would irritate me too. Second, this trade is clearly designed to take advantage of a weaker owner. Good owners will generally not make such silly moves (although it happens). That tells me that people in your league are taking advantage of others (which is the type of league I personally would not want to be in). Third, if I make the assumption that his understanding of the rules was flawed, he might be upset about that too (both his misunderstanding and having messed up the veto).

This does not excuse any verbal abuse on his part (if there was any), but may put it into some perspective. If he had some repressed anger about earlier events, I can understand why he feels the way he does. It always looks suspicious when the commish makes bogus or lopsided trades in a league where owners may be taken advantage of.

I might make one more stab at trying to find out all the things he is upset about. I mean, truly try to understand the problem. There may be other stuff you don't even know about. But it needs to be done in a non-confrontational (humble) manner without personnal attacks. Perhaps one of the other managers could help if you can't be objective.
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Postby jellyroll » Mon May 30, 2005 3:50 am

I'd say agree to a mediator (someone in the cafe?).

If he thinks he is being screwed nothing you say will likely turn him around.
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Postby bboy » Mon May 30, 2005 4:25 am

Have a look at Walkers recent stats - he's a fly by nighter and is not in the same league as GA. Anderson is a legit top 100 player. Having said that I wouldn't veto that trade if you're crazy well... :-)
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Postby davus » Mon May 30, 2005 8:47 am

ukrneal wrote:Did he show any signs of this behavior before the trade and were there other incidents that maybe he didn't share with you?

I ask, because this is important.

First, the trade is bogus. In other words, a hot RP with no track record is not an even trade for a consistant producer (who can easily be a top 50 player, and isn't doing too badly as it is). This trade would irritate me too. Second, this trade is clearly designed to take advantage of a weaker owner. ... SNIP


He was sort of flaky from the get go with being unreliable to respond to emails when we were trying to get the draft date set, etc. and then being the one person that we had to change draft dates several times when the rest of the league had agreed to one. He complained about an earlier trade too (not involving me - Furcal for Barmes/Holliday) but not nearly as bad as this one. He has yet to cast a vote against a trade though as the rules state, instead choosing to flame away at people on the board instead of just voting against it.

I have to take exception with you on Anderson being a consistent producer, however. Our league has 2b, 3b and OPS as categories in addition to the standard 5x5. Under those categories, Anderson currently has negative value because he only is helping in RBI's and AVG (just barely here) while hurting you immensly in SB, triples and being below avg in doubles. Just because he was good in 2003, does not make him valuable a year and a half later. Walker had just saved 7 straight games and was looking great throughout May, his 6 ER's in the past 3 games were not considered because they hadn't occurred until after the trade was accepted.

Now I realize that Walker is/was a risk, hell he was a risk for me to even pick up in the first place...but so was Worrell 2 years ago when he started saving, so was Gagne, so is ANY first time closer. Some take to it great, others don't...Walker looked like he may have been really taking to it until his last 3 appearances and even still hasn't blown a save yet.

Anyway, this is a very competative league and really only has a few weak managers including the offending manager. None of the other owners have expressed any negative reaction and the ones who have spoken up say they understand why the trade was accepted (guy getting walker is tied for last in saves and is desperate for them) and they also understand that Anderson is on the downside of his career and not THAT valuable in our scoring system.

I guess everyone is going to have different opinions, but at the time the trade was accepted, a guy who had just converted 7 saves in a row with a 3.42 ERA was not bad value for an over the hill OF with a.284 BA that only had 1 redeeming category (RBI) out of 8.

BTW, we have tried reasoning with the guy, it is not possible. It has only escalated things. He refuses to follow the process described in the rules, instead choosing to being a jerk on the league forum.
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Postby davus » Mon May 30, 2005 9:02 am

bboy wrote:Have a look at Walkers recent stats - he's a fly by nighter and is not in the same league as GA. Anderson is a legit top 100 player. Having said that I wouldn't veto that trade if you're crazy well... :-)


Yes, he is a fly by nighter. Though at the time of the trade he was doing great 3.42 ERA and 7 straight saves.

Anyway, i'm not here to discuss if the trade is fair or not. The guy can vote against and hasn't, that's the problem. He's just cursing people out on the forum and in emails instead of trying to get the trade blocked.
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Postby ukrneal » Mon May 30, 2005 9:03 am

You can't do more than that.

You're right, I don' know all the details, which is why I normally don't like to give an opinion - it's not possible to give the right advice without knowing all the details.

You are right on one point. Walker could be a Worrell type from two years ago. I see several differences, the most important being that Worrell was already a pretty good player and had proved that. In any case, I just can't see how 1-2 weeks of perfromance brings his value anywhere near Anderson's value. It's not like Anderson's doing badly (we all know he was hurt and may have started slow) and if he takes off at some point (like I would fully expect) he becomes tremendously valuable. Even if I was deparate, I wouldn't make that trade.

In any case, you and I can agree to disagree.
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Postby davus » Mon May 30, 2005 9:04 am

jellyroll wrote:I'd say agree to a mediator (someone in the cafe?).

If he thinks he is being screwed nothing you say will likely turn him around.


To what end? I'm not sure what the goal would be with this...could you elaborate?
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Postby davus » Mon May 30, 2005 9:07 am

ukrneal wrote:You can't do more than that.

You're right, I don' know all the details, which is why I normally don't like to give an opinion - it's not possible to give the right advice without knowing all the details.

You are right on one point. Walker could be a Worrell type from two years ago. I see several differences, the most important being that Worrell was already a pretty good player and had proved that. In any case, I just can't see how 1-2 weeks of perfromance brings his value anywhere near Anderson's value. It's not like Anderson's doing badly (we all know he was hurt and may have started slow) and if he takes off at some point (like I would fully expect) he becomes tremendously valuable. Even if I was deparate, I wouldn't make that trade.

In any case, you and I can agree to disagree.


Thanks for the advice bro. I agree in 5x5 this trade would be a lot worse, but since Anderson is only contributing to 2 of 8 categories, he becomes decidedly less valuable. Lots of players are great real players but much less valuable in fantasy, especially when you start adding categories.

What can I say, people also will tend to overpay for closers when they don't draft enough and find themselves slipping. It happens every year and it's one of the things I take advantage of to try to win my leagues. I don't think there's anything wrong or unethical with the strategy. ;-D
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Postby josebach » Mon May 30, 2005 12:45 pm

davus wrote:
ukrneal wrote:You can't do more than that.

You're right, I don' know all the details, which is why I normally don't like to give an opinion - it's not possible to give the right advice without knowing all the details.

You are right on one point. Walker could be a Worrell type from two years ago. I see several differences, the most important being that Worrell was already a pretty good player and had proved that. In any case, I just can't see how 1-2 weeks of perfromance brings his value anywhere near Anderson's value. It's not like Anderson's doing badly (we all know he was hurt and may have started slow) and if he takes off at some point (like I would fully expect) he becomes tremendously valuable. Even if I was deparate, I wouldn't make that trade.

In any case, you and I can agree to disagree.


Thanks for the advice bro. I agree in 5x5 this trade would be a lot worse, but since Anderson is only contributing to 2 of 8 categories, he becomes decidedly less valuable. Lots of players are great real players but much less valuable in fantasy, especially when you start adding categories.

What can I say, people also will tend to overpay for closers when they don't draft enough and find themselves slipping. It happens every year and it's one of the things I take advantage of to try to win my leagues. I don't think there's anything wrong or unethical with the strategy. ;-D


Anderson is only contributing in two of eight categories? In 2003 (His last healthy year) he was the 40th ranked player. He had 80 runs, 29 home runs, 49 doubles, 4 triples, 119 RBIs, 6 stolen bases, .886 OPS and batted .315. That's 8 categories he has the potential to help in, not two like you've been saying. He's also not "over the hill". No matter how hard you try (and we can see that you're trying ;-) ), you're not going to convince us at the cafe that Anderson isn't valuable.

Anyway you look at it, it's an uneven trade. As the commissioner, you have to hold yourself to a higher standard. Taking advantage of a weaker player is the last thing a commissioner should do... especially if there's money involved. IMHO.
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