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Top 10 Starting Pitchers

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Postby Yoda » Fri May 27, 2005 6:42 pm

warrick95 wrote:My top 10 in no particular order:
Santana
RJ
Pedro
Beckett
Halladay
Oswalt
Sheets
Beckett
Peavy
Clemens

Prior getting hurt, Burnett iffy, Harden hurt, and Schilling's injury up in the air made this easier.


Beckett's so good he makes the list twice. ;-7
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Postby CPHFighter1 » Fri May 27, 2005 7:29 pm

Here are my top 10 for the rest of this year. Really, what is the point in rating guys over the last two months? Who cares? Espn and yahoo both have player raters for that if you're interested.

Santana
Peavy
Clemens
Vazquez
Schmidt
Johnson
Oswalt
Prior (assuming he doesn't miss more than 15 days)
Pedro
Halladay

In my humble opinion, Buehrle, Garland, and Bedard belond nowhere near these ten.

Sheets and Schilling would certainly be on the list barring injuries.

If I had to extend it to 15, these 5 would be added:
Beckett, Burnett (if healthy), Myers, Zambrano, Hudson.
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Postby bd3521 » Fri May 27, 2005 7:34 pm

Just for reference here is CBS Player Rankings so far...

PLAYER RATING LASTWEEK CHANGE W L ERA IP BB SO
1. Dontrelle Willis, FLA 159.41 157.60 +1.81 8 1 1.55 64.0 13 50
2. Jon Garland, CHW 121.83 132.45 -10.62 8 1 2.57 66.2 11 31
3. Kenny Rogers, TEX 121.51 111.84 +9.67 6 2 1.69 69.1 22 24
4. Jake Peavy, SD 119.79 103.77 +16.02 5 0 2.00 72.0 12 73
5. Josh Beckett, FLA 117.77 128.15 -10.38 6 3 2.63 61.2 23 63
6. Roger Clemens, HOU 117.17 114.56 +2.61 3 2 1.19 68.0 19 69
7. Roy Halladay, TOR 115.53 123.86 -8.33 7 2 2.84 76.0 13 49
8. Brett Myers, PHI 112.94 110.13 +2.81 4 2 1.69 69.1 17 74
9. Erik Bedard, BAL 108.67 116.67 -8.00 5 1 2.08 60.2 14 52
10. Mark Buehrle, CHW 108.38 108.00 +0.38 7 1 3.05 76.2 14 46
11. Bartolo Colon, ANA 100.04 100.37 -0.33 5 3 2.53 67.2 20 48
12. Adam Eaton, SD 96.40 92.82 +3.58 7 1 3.49 59.1 18 44
13. Chris Carpenter, STL 96.35 83.16 +13.19 7 2 3.78 66.2 22 61
14. Mark Mulder, STL 93.96 87.21 +6.75 7 1 3.72 67.2 19 41
15. Livan Hernandez, WAS 93.23 97.52 -4.29 7 2 3.70 75.1 29 50
16. Mike Hampton, ATL 88.70 95.26 -6.56 4 1 1.96 55.0 14 21
17. Brandon Webb, ARI 88.12 93.56 -5.44 6 1 3.39 69.0 20 54
18. Tim Hudson, ATL 85.00 67.30 +17.70 5 3 3.05 65.0 23 41
19. Johan Santana, MIN 83.28 91.69 -8.41 5 2 3.82 68.1 8 83
20. Roy Oswalt, HOU 83.07 89.33 -6.26 5 5 3.38 69.1 18 53
21. Jeremy Bonderman, DET 82.91 89.67 -6.76 5 3 3.48 67.1 20 56
22. Pedro Martinez, NYM 82.35 90.25 -7.90 4 1 3.14 63.0 12 73
23. Mark Prior, CHC 81.73 90.10 -8.37 4 1 2.95 55.0 15 59
24. Matt Clement, BOS 81.35 87.49 -6.14 5 0 3.34 64.2 22 47
25. Javier Vazquez, ARI 80.62 86.44 -5.82 5 3 3.49 67.0 8 63
26. Derek Lowe, LA 78.74 84.70 -5.96 4 4 3.02 65.2 14 47
27. Chris Capuano, MIL 78.26 58.19 +20.07 4 3 3.09 67.0 23 51
28. Jason Marquis, STL 78.04 79.40 -1.36 5 3 3.43 63.0 25 37
29. Mike Mussina, NYY 77.66 59.91 +17.75 5 2 3.38 64.0 15 44
30. Freddy An. Garcia, CHW 77.12 66.48 +10.64 5 3 3.41 68.2 18 44
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Postby Jack-In-A-Box » Fri May 27, 2005 8:09 pm

rjforlife wrote:
Jack-In-A-Box wrote:
Also J.Vazquez has bounced back nicely this year. Maybe NYY jumped the gun on trading him.



they didnt jump the gun at all.....if he was in NY this year he would be the same schmuck he was 2nd half last season.....the move to Arizona and return to the NL is what has turned the tides for javier.


Actually, one of my most recent SportingNews mags made mention to the fact that Vazquez was pitching in pain the 2nd half of last year which may have been what was causing his sudden decline. He was on pace for almost 20 wins last year. Hardly a schmuck. But all anyone remembers is what happens most recently.. that being his 2nd half. Same with Mulder this year. He slid in a lot of drafts because of his awful 2nd half and fear of injury last year. Mulder was 12-2 first half and 5-6 with double the ERA 2nd half of last year. Lots of people thought Mulder was done for. But as seen now by both Vazquez and Mulder.. pitching pain free has brought them back to expectations.
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Postby TheRawDAWG » Sat May 28, 2005 11:05 am

Jack-In-A-Box wrote:
rjforlife wrote:
Jack-In-A-Box wrote:
Also J.Vazquez has bounced back nicely this year. Maybe NYY jumped the gun on trading him.



they didnt jump the gun at all.....if he was in NY this year he would be the same schmuck he was 2nd half last season.....the move to Arizona and return to the NL is what has turned the tides for javier.


Actually, one of my most recent SportingNews mags made mention to the fact that Vazquez was pitching in pain the 2nd half of last year which may have been what was causing his sudden decline. He was on pace for almost 20 wins last year. Hardly a schmuck. But all anyone remembers is what happens most recently.. that being his 2nd half. Same with Mulder this year. He slid in a lot of drafts because of his awful 2nd half and fear of injury last year. Mulder was 12-2 first half and 5-6 with double the ERA 2nd half of last year. Lots of people thought Mulder was done for. But as seen now by both Vazquez and Mulder.. pitching pain free has brought them back to expectations.


Funny you mention the 2 pitchers that best support the other guys argument with them both moving from the AL to the NL.
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Re: Top 10 Starting Pitchers

Postby Webster11 » Mon May 30, 2005 6:01 pm

davidmarver wrote:
Yoda wrote:Would be nice to see you back it up with some supporting arguments instead of a personal jab. The fact that the guy has a career 3.70 ERA with a 5.39 K/9 IP in 05 shows me he doens't belong in the top 10 among starters. Sorry.


Yeah I agree with Yoda. I think Beurhle would be nice to have in real life as a #1 because he eats more innings than anyone else, but as far as fantasy goes he doesn't compare to handfuls of other pitchers.


While IP doesnt have a huge impact in fantasy leagues. It can have some, A good Whip and ERA spread out over 250 innings is much more valuable than a good WHIP and ERA over less innings. Im not saying this is a huge impact at all but I know it can often be overlooked especially when people consider closers with great WHIP or ERA.
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Re: Top 10 Starting Pitchers

Postby davidmarver » Mon May 30, 2005 6:14 pm

Webster11 wrote:
davidmarver wrote:
Yoda wrote:Would be nice to see you back it up with some supporting arguments instead of a personal jab. The fact that the guy has a career 3.70 ERA with a 5.39 K/9 IP in 05 shows me he doens't belong in the top 10 among starters. Sorry.


Yeah I agree with Yoda. I think Beurhle would be nice to have in real life as a #1 because he eats more innings than anyone else, but as far as fantasy goes he doesn't compare to handfuls of other pitchers.


While IP doesnt have a huge impact in fantasy leagues. It can have some, A good Whip and ERA spread out over 250 innings is much more valuable than a good WHIP and ERA over less innings. Im not saying this is a huge impact at all but I know it can often be overlooked especially when people consider closers with great WHIP or ERA.


True, but to be perfectly honest, I don't think Beurhle is that much more valuable than a guy like Adam Eaton. They'll end up striking out the same amount of batters, have ratios that are fairly similar, and win around the same range of games.

I think Beurhle's real possible top ten value is in real life, where he's a bullpen Godsend, while giving solid efforts regularly. Just not someone I wanna give top ten consideration to in fantasy.
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Postby Webster11 » Mon May 30, 2005 6:24 pm

IMO if a guy like O Perez last year could recieve top 10 consideration for good WHIP and ERA numbers plus great K numbers and okay wins. I think Buerhle should recieve top 10 consideration for good WHIP and ERA plus great wins and okay K numbers. If you can couple him with a closer such as Gagne, Lidge, K Rod or Ryan that should make up for any lack of Ks. Also in my previous post I was referring more to H2H leagues instead of roto leagues with IP limits
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Postby davidmarver » Mon May 30, 2005 6:31 pm

Webster11 wrote:IMO if a guy like O Perez last year could recieve top 10 consideration for good WHIP and ERA numbers plus great K numbers and okay wins. I think Buerhle should recieve top 10 consideration for good WHIP and ERA plus great wins and okay K numbers. Also in my previous post I was referring more to H2H leagues instead of roto leagues with IP limits

His ratios in the past have been worse than a teams final ERA and WHIP, so I don't get how he necessarily helps there.
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Postby NZF » Mon May 30, 2005 6:32 pm

warrick95 wrote:My top 10 in no particular order:
Santana
RJ
Pedro
Beckett
Halladay
Oswalt
Sheets
Beckett
Peavy
Clemens

Prior getting hurt, Burnett iffy, Harden hurt, and Schilling's injury up in the air made this easier.



That list looks spot on. I'd just include Myers for the second mentioned Beckett.

Buehrle misses out due to an ordinary K/9 ratio and I expect Willis to regress significantly on what he's done so far this season. Prior, Harden and Bedard not considered.
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