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Postby YardBirds » Mon May 16, 2005 4:19 am

30 starts averaging 6-7 innings a game = 180 to 210 innings... and alot of stress on their arms all at one time

70 saves chances = 70 innings spread out 2-3 innings a week, maybe more maybe less... and spread out... I think Wood would stay alot healthier spreading out his innings.
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Postby Conner » Mon May 16, 2005 4:21 am

YardBirds wrote:30 starts averaging 6-7 innings a game = 180 to 210 innings... and alot of stress on their arms all at one time

70 saves chances = 70 innings spread out 2-3 innings a week, maybe more maybe less... and spread out... I think Wood would stay alot healthier spreading out his innings.


It's really not about the total innings.

It's just very very different.
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Postby hybrid » Mon May 16, 2005 7:13 am

If you listened to Smoltz talk about going back to being a starter you would understand more. He said it was harder on his arm to be a closer then a starter. The daily grind of never knowing when your coming in and all the times you warm up and don't even get into the game ... it's just very different and not actually easier on the arm.

Starters become closers usually cause they can't last after facing hitters once through the order. While they may have very good stuff, there is obviously more that goes into being a starter.
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Postby Yoda » Mon May 16, 2005 11:01 am

Conner wrote:
Yoda wrote:A lot of dominant starters with pure stuff become dominant closers: Gagne, Smoltz, etc. I think that if he can focus for one or two innings, he will be very successful. Cubs SHOULD do it.


Two or three guys really isn't "a lot" (Gagne wasn't a "dominant starter". to begin with)..

Usually, it's the bad starters that can become good relievers....because they simply weren't cut out for starting.

Pitching 4 or 5 times a week is a whole lot different than starting, and Wood's problems haven't been with his ability to start...it's his inability to stay healthy. If he can't pitch once a week and 30 times per year...I'm not sure why anyone would assume he can pitch 4 times a week and 70 times per year.


The key phrase here is 'dominant stuff' not dominant starter. TOTALLY different. Dotel, Nathan, Rivera, Krod, Wagner to name few were all converted starters either at AAA or at MLB.

Not only bad starters become good relievers. The reason why good starters don't become relievers is b/c a good starter is more valuable.
Last edited by Yoda on Mon May 16, 2005 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby prodpaul » Mon May 16, 2005 11:03 am

RugbyD wrote:maybe in 2 years, at the earliest.
Yeah and when Baker leaves.
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Mon May 16, 2005 12:29 pm

hybrid wrote:If you listened to Smoltz talk about going back to being a starter you would understand more. He said it was harder on his arm to be a closer then a starter. The daily grind of never knowing when your coming in and all the times you warm up and don't even get into the game ... it's just very different and not actually easier on the arm.

Starters become closers usually cause they can't last after facing hitters once through the order. While they may have very good stuff, there is obviously more that goes into being a starter.


;-D The wear and tear from having to warm up 80-90 or more times a season will wear on your arm more than warming up for your 30 starts. In addition to the additional strain of warming up so many times, you may not log as many innings, but you will throw harder for the few that you are out there. Moving to the closers role from the rotation does nothing -- or very little anyway -- to prevent arm problems in a guy with a hitsory of them.
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Postby King Tim » Mon May 16, 2005 1:59 pm

prodpaul wrote:
RugbyD wrote:maybe in 2 years, at the earliest.
Yeah and when Baker leaves.


I'm sure Rob Nenn doesn't want to see Kerry become Baker's closer
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Postby Conner » Mon May 16, 2005 5:39 pm

Yoda wrote:
Conner wrote:
Yoda wrote:A lot of dominant starters with pure stuff become dominant closers: Gagne, Smoltz, etc. I think that if he can focus for one or two innings, he will be very successful. Cubs SHOULD do it.


Two or three guys really isn't "a lot" (Gagne wasn't a "dominant starter". to begin with)..

Usually, it's the bad starters that can become good relievers....because they simply weren't cut out for starting.

Pitching 4 or 5 times a week is a whole lot different than starting, and Wood's problems haven't been with his ability to start...it's his inability to stay healthy. If he can't pitch once a week and 30 times per year...I'm not sure why anyone would assume he can pitch 4 times a week and 70 times per year.


The key phrase here is 'dominant stuff' not dominant starter. TOTALLY different. Dotel, Nathan, Rivera, Krod, Wagner to name few were all converted starters either at AAA or at MLB.

Not only bad starters become good relievers. The reason why good starters don't become relievers is b/c a good starter is more valuable.


But.....you didn't say the phrase "dominant stuff" at all.

You said "dominant starters with pure stuff"...
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Postby Yoda » Mon May 16, 2005 5:42 pm

Conner wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Conner wrote:
Yoda wrote:A lot of dominant starters with pure stuff become dominant closers: Gagne, Smoltz, etc. I think that if he can focus for one or two innings, he will be very successful. Cubs SHOULD do it.


Two or three guys really isn't "a lot" (Gagne wasn't a "dominant starter". to begin with)..

Usually, it's the bad starters that can become good relievers....because they simply weren't cut out for starting.

Pitching 4 or 5 times a week is a whole lot different than starting, and Wood's problems haven't been with his ability to start...it's his inability to stay healthy. If he can't pitch once a week and 30 times per year...I'm not sure why anyone would assume he can pitch 4 times a week and 70 times per year.


The key phrase here is 'dominant stuff' not dominant starter. TOTALLY different. Dotel, Nathan, Rivera, Krod, Wagner to name few were all converted starters either at AAA or at MLB.

Not only bad starters become good relievers. The reason why good starters don't become relievers is b/c a good starter is more valuable.


But.....you didn't say the phrase "dominant stuff" at all.

You said "dominant starters with pure stuff"...


Yeah... but that is what I meant. Starters with dominant stuff. Gagne was not at all dominant. Sorry for the confusion. :-D
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Postby Conner » Mon May 16, 2005 5:43 pm

Yoda wrote:Yeah... but that is what I meant. Starters with dominant stuff. Gagne was not at all dominant. Sorry for the confusion. :-D


Cool. ;-D
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