ERA vs. WHIP - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

ERA vs. WHIP

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby cookman » Sat May 14, 2005 2:35 pm

klvrdude wrote:
The Punisher wrote:I mean someone else could make up the same argument for R, HR, and RBI's saying they are all the same thing.


I appreciate the input, but I'm not sure there is too much strength in that arguement.

In our league (roto) everyone's ERA and WHIP standings are with 2 or 3 places, but the HR leader has the fewest RBI's....a lot of solo HR's I guess ;-)


Just because this is true in your league doesn't make it universally true. In my league, for instance, the top 3 guys in HR are all in the top 4 in R, RBI, and H. While not perfectly correllated, I would say if you did a statistical analysis on these stats, you would find a significant positive correlation between them. Same can be said for ERA and WHIP, and many other stat categories. Just because it doesn't always hold true doesn't mean that there is no relation.

So unless your guy wants to only pick one or two stats for hitting and pitching each to determine the points in your league, you probably will run into a lot of redundancy in stat counting. Although I can't imagine a 2x2 being much fun. :-b
cookman
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 392
Joined: 9 May 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby klvrdude » Sat May 14, 2005 3:12 pm

Cookman, I was just giving an example of how R/RBI's aren't as strongly correlated to HR like ERA seems to be linked to WHIP.



I agree with most the posts that say WHIP is a better measure of a pitchers success rather than ERA, although I'm surprised no one has brought up the 'runners left of base scenario' when a starting pitcher is yanked and how that will effect his ERA (i.e a pitcher's ERA can be dicated by his successor's effectiveness).

Maybe a better question is if ERA is so "luck" based, why is it such a staple in fantasy leagues?
klvrdude
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1010
Joined: 1 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby beltrans_boy » Sat May 14, 2005 3:17 pm

klvrdude wrote:Cookman, I was just giving an example of how R/RBI's aren't as strongly correlated to HR like ERA seems to be linked to WHIP.



I agree with most the posts that say WHIP is a better measure of a pitchers success rather than ERA, although I'm surprised no one has brought up the 'runners left of base scenario' when a starting pitcher is yanked and how that will effect his ERA (i.e a pitcher's ERA can be dicated by his successor's effectiveness).

Maybe a better question is if ERA is so "luck" based, why is it such a staple in fantasy leagues?


Because it's a remnant of a bygone era. Just like batting average, and RBIs and Runs.
[size=10]"Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument." [/size]
beltrans_boy
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3092
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: crusing down the street in my six-fo'

Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Sat May 14, 2005 3:21 pm

beltrans_boy wrote:
klvrdude wrote:......why is it [ERA] such a staple in fantasy leagues?


Because it's a remnant of a bygone era. Just like batting average, and RBIs and Runs.

Exactly. ;-D
Image
Member #4 of the Inaugural Yadier Molina Fan Club!!!
SaintsOfTheDiamond
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe Ranker
Posts: 6480
Joined: 6 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Swiping second

Postby klvrdude » Sat May 14, 2005 3:31 pm

beltrans_boy wrote:Because it's a remnant of a bygone era. Just like batting average, and RBIs and Runs.


You can't just make a post like that and split ;-)

If you were to put together your ideal fantasy league what stats would you monitor/count?
klvrdude
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1010
Joined: 1 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby blankman » Sat May 14, 2005 3:40 pm

Look at Andy Pettitte. He's always given up a lot of hits, but has managed to keep a pretty good ERA with a bad WHIP.
Last edited by blankman on Sat May 14, 2005 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
blankman
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

Graphics Expert
Posts: 10770
Joined: 6 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby beltrans_boy » Sat May 14, 2005 3:46 pm

klvrdude wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:Because it's a remnant of a bygone era. Just like batting average, and RBIs and Runs.


You can't just make a post like that and split ;-)

If you were to put together your ideal fantasy league what stats would you monitor/count?


Hmmm, this is a tough one.

For hitters: OPS, HRs, SB%
For pitchers: WHIP, K/BB, HR/9 w/ a minimum 25 IP per week

That's right...a 3x3 league. Of course, there could be more stats, but they're more specialized, and difficult to implement in a fantasy league format.
[size=10]"Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument." [/size]
beltrans_boy
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3092
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: crusing down the street in my six-fo'

Postby NZF » Sat May 14, 2005 3:59 pm

They are correlated to a degree but are definitely worthy of being seperate categories.

Last season Jake Peavy had an ERA of 2.27 yet a WHIP of 1.20.

Pedro this season has an ERA of 3.38 yet an insanely low WHIP of not much more than 0.70.

In Peavy's case it was the ability (or luck) to get out of innings with runners stranded on base. With Pedro it's a case of allowing pretty much every guy you put on base to score.

Pitchers that have great control will generally have decent WHIP's but not necessarily great ERA's because although they don't walk many they are very hittable. Brad Radke falls into this category.
When you're right no one remembers, when you're wrong no one forgets - NZF
NZF
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4795
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Sitting in the Cake Tin enjoying a cold Speights

Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Sat May 14, 2005 4:00 pm

beltrans_boy wrote:That's right...a 3x3 league. Of course, there could be more stats, but they're more specialized, and difficult to implement in a fantasy league format.


I agree. The ideal fantasy league would be too hard to implement with the standard providers.
Image
Member #4 of the Inaugural Yadier Molina Fan Club!!!
SaintsOfTheDiamond
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe Ranker
Posts: 6480
Joined: 6 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Swiping second

Postby beltrans_boy » Sat May 14, 2005 4:05 pm

SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:That's right...a 3x3 league. Of course, there could be more stats, but they're more specialized, and difficult to implement in a fantasy league format.


I agree. The ideal fantasy league would be too hard to implement with the standard providers.


Totally. I mean, IDEALLY speaking, the only stats you'd need would be RC/27 and RSAA w/ a minimum IP.

But then again, that would be kind of boring.
[size=10]"Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument." [/size]
beltrans_boy
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3092
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: crusing down the street in my six-fo'

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Tuesday, Sep. 30
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Oakland at Kansas City
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact