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ERA vs. WHIP

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ERA vs. WHIP

Postby klvrdude » Sat May 14, 2005 12:56 pm

There is a guy in my private league among friends that is raising a stink that we have both ERA and WHIP as roto catagories. And if you can believe he's last in both of them. His arguement is that they are closely correlated so its a bit redundant to have them both.

I want to know what people in the cafe think. Is it redundant? Though similiar they are very different b/c...?

Thanks ;-D
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Postby baseball6791 » Sat May 14, 2005 1:02 pm

that guy is just bitter - they are completely different stat categories that relate to individual part of a pitchers performance. the whip correlates to his ability to keep guys of the bases, while the era correlates to his ability to get out of it when there are guys on base and not to make bad pitches and give up HR. they only way id see it being redundant is if u counted H and BB for pitchers
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Postby The Punisher » Sat May 14, 2005 1:06 pm

There not so similar. He probably just thinks so because they are the most common ratios used and they appear to be the same sometimes. But thats not true because there are some pitcher who give up 8 or 9 hits plus like 3 or 4 walks a game yet they might throw a CG shutout. On the other hand some pitcher might get screwed and walk like 3 guys and give up 1 hit yet they gave up 4 runs. They are different no matter what that guy says. Right now im in h2h for the week Im losing by .50 in ERA yet im winning by .15 in WHIP.
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Postby CPHFighter1 » Sat May 14, 2005 1:10 pm

All good comments....

On average, I would say WHIP leads to ERA. But ERA does not lead to WHIP.
A lot of fantasy baseball stats are correlated. Tell him to try and find a 2x2 league or something.
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Postby The Punisher » Sat May 14, 2005 1:19 pm

CPHFighter1 wrote:All good comments....

On average, I would say WHIP leads to ERA. But ERA does not lead to WHIP.
A lot of fantasy baseball stats are correlated. Tell him to try and find a 2x2 league or something.


Yes I totally agree that most of fantasy baseball stats are correlated. I mean someone else could make up the same argument for R, HR, and RBI's saying they are all the same thing.
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Postby Q » Sat May 14, 2005 1:21 pm

Then argue that RBI and R are just as similar.
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Postby klvrdude » Sat May 14, 2005 1:33 pm

The Punisher wrote:I mean someone else could make up the same argument for R, HR, and RBI's saying they are all the same thing.


I appreciate the input, but I'm not sure there is too much strength in that arguement.

In our league (roto) everyone's ERA and WHIP standings are with 2 or 3 places, but the HR leader has the fewest RBI's....a lot of solo HR's I guess ;-)
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Postby The Punisher » Sat May 14, 2005 2:20 pm

klvrdude wrote:
The Punisher wrote:I mean someone else could make up the same argument for R, HR, and RBI's saying they are all the same thing.


I appreciate the input, but I'm not sure there is too much strength in that arguement.

In our league (roto) everyone's ERA and WHIP standings are with 2 or 3 places, but the HR leader has the fewest RBI's....a lot of solo HR's I guess ;-)


I know it it doesnt have much strengh I was using that as an example of something else the guy could say, like comparing R,HR, and RBI is like comparing ERA and WHIP, they seem similar yet they are totally different things.
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Postby Kingctb27 » Sat May 14, 2005 2:23 pm

They are closely related if you ask me. When have you guys ever seen a guy with the standing of ERA - 2 and WHIP - 10? It doesn't happen. But, the guy shouldn't be complaining about this. It's his fault he drafted crappy starters.
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Sat May 14, 2005 2:35 pm

They are somewhat related, but it is possible to have a high WHIP and low ERA and vice versa. WHIP is a better rough estimate of a pitchers performance, while ERA shows more or less how "lucky" a pitcher has been. A low WHIP but high ERA shows that a pitcher has been very effective (allowing few baserunners by his own actions) but due to circumstances outside his control (bad defense mainly) has allowed runs that are technically earned, but aren't expicitly his fault. In this case if he keeps his WHIP the same the ERA will slowly come down to reflect the lower WHIP just by the law of averages. Conversely if he has a high WHIP but low ERA that shows that he has been putting runners on, but his defense, poor baserunning, etc has bailed him out. In this case if the WHIP stays the same he won't be getting the good breaks all season (law of averages again) and his ERA will begin to rise to reflect that.

So I guess I'm basically repeating CPH's comments in that that WHIP "causes" ERA but ERA really has no bearing whatsoever on WHIP itself. Consequently, WHIP is the only standard fantasy cat that truly reflects a pitchers effectiveness if you ask me.

And king, I see what you're saying, but the differences can be and often are very subtle. ;-D
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