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Postby SouthBronxBombers » Fri May 13, 2005 12:18 pm

No, they don't. If his BA was woeful, you might would have a point. Since it was at the .282 level, you don't. He does not hurt you there.
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Postby bselig » Fri May 13, 2005 12:23 pm

Hm? Lopez hit .316 last season and Irod hit .334 last season. Both were better in 5x5 leagues than Vic. That's fact, regardless of how dull you are or whether or not you want to accept it. Vic was the third best catcher last season and a fine catcher he was. There just happened to have been two catchers who were better.
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Postby SouthBronxBombers » Fri May 13, 2005 12:26 pm

Hmm, and he drove in more runs and scored more runs that IRod. And as much of an ass as you want to be, I hardly doubt you are the preeminent authority on the subject. You like those two better, I don't. VMart was considered by many to be the best fantasy catcher last year. I'm sure you can go offer your services to them to prove otherwise. I'll go with him.
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Postby bselig » Fri May 13, 2005 12:34 pm

LOL. I can see your non-argument is degrading into complete nonsensicality. Whether or not you "like" him more isn't relavent, whether or not he was #1 is. And, again, the numbers do not lie. In one last ditch attempt to enable you to discern fact from fiction I am going to post the 2004 final rankings in 5x5 leagues (not o-rankings, of course) of all three of the catchers we have discussed here:

Rodriguez - 101 overall
Lopez - 109 overall
Vic - 121 overall

Those are their values relative to each other in 5x5 scoring in 2004 whether or not you want to believe it. Yes, if you value rbi much higher than other statistics (ie, NOT at a typical 5x5 ratio) then yes, perhaps Vic could be the "best." But, as I said earlier, my statement was based on standard 5x5 scoring, not another method and not "who i like" best. Just on reality. I can see you aren't a very bright guy, so I won't burden you with much more reading: this will be my last post to you. Good tidings to you, sir.
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Postby SouthBronxBombers » Fri May 13, 2005 12:37 pm

I have forgotten you are the ultimate authority. Please forgive me, massa.

Again, your opinion is yours. It is not held by all, including the many fantasy sources that considered VMArt to be the best fantasy catcher last year and the best coming into this year. That a ranking system you choose has that listing is not conclusive proof of anything.
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Postby ActionHero » Fri May 13, 2005 12:38 pm

According to Yahoo, the top 3 catchers last year were:

1. I. Rodriguez (#101 overall)
2. J. Lopez (#109 overall)
3. V. Martinez (#121 overall
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Postby dloke » Fri May 13, 2005 12:42 pm

Cute catfight guys.

Wasn't the original post, before you two hijacked it with personal attacks on one another, a question on what's going on with VMart? If someone has something interesting or insightful to post on the actual subject I'm sure we would be interested to hear it. I know I would (much more than reading more selig/southbronx barbs).
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Postby d18Mike » Fri May 13, 2005 1:20 pm

I think a lot of folks are asking the same question -- and no one seems to have a concrete answer. A lot of theories, however.

I saw a stat yesterday that I thought was at least instructive but by no means a full answer. I realize that.

The Tribe's OBP is 2-3 worst in MLB. Vmart's career average with runners on base is .302. It's .249 with bases empty.

He is seeing a lot more bases empty situations this year (and hence fewer "good pitches to hit"). I don't think this differential is an oddity. But it points out the fact that if you have a couple hitters sneezing, the whole lineup catches the cold.

Like others, I'd like to hear any theories on this.

I never thought at the beginning of the year that I'd have VMart and Chavez sitting on my bench, uninjured.
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Postby Irish » Fri May 13, 2005 1:23 pm

I just traded for Vmart, giving Mauer and M. Batista :-o

I'm thinking when hafner comes around Martinez will see better pitches also. It just seems like the whole team is in a funk. If it was just Martinez I would worry, but I have a feeling he'll be fine when the team plays like it can. Patience,patience....
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Postby Yoda » Fri May 13, 2005 1:26 pm

ActionHero wrote:According to Yahoo, the top 3 catchers last year were:

1. I. Rodriguez (#101 overall)
2. J. Lopez (#109 overall)
3. V. Martinez (#121 overall


Yahoo Rankings are stupid. You can never, ever, go by them.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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