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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri May 13, 2005 1:16 pm

2 for 2 is a bit misleading - he also got the L on 4-16, but he entered when the game was tied.
He didnt fair too well as FLA's closer last yr after they dealt for him either.

My enitre argument against Mota isnt that he is a bad pitcher (clearly he is good), but rather he isnt as much of a lock to remain their closer as some might have you believe. Just be careful in that you dont rely on him too much. His preseason ranking was pretty off in that he was considered in many rankings to be on the cusp of a top 10 closer, and I simply think that was too high because of the uncertainty surrounding him.
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Postby Sp_Da_Man » Fri May 13, 2005 3:32 pm

Good debate guys. Some guy that had Jones just released him & I'm always on the lookout for a guy who could steal some saves.

Just seeing with Mota's inexperience and arm issues if anyone thought Jones might be worth grabbing.
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Postby donny23 » Fri May 13, 2005 5:07 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:2 for 2 is a bit misleading - he also got the L on 4-16, but he entered when the game was tied.
He didnt fair too well as FLA's closer last yr after they dealt for him either.

My enitre argument against Mota isnt that he is a bad pitcher (clearly he is good), but rather he isnt as much of a lock to remain their closer as some might have you believe. Just be careful in that you dont rely on him too much. His preseason ranking was pretty off in that he was considered in many rankings to be on the cusp of a top 10 closer, and I simply think that was too high because of the uncertainty surrounding him.


Isn't 2-2 a situation that you'd normally find a MR guy in? Why slide him back to middle relief in that case? He's clearly a failure in that role <rolls eyes>. You're really trying to twist the stats to fit an argument that really isn't there. The only problem with his season so far has been injuries and lack of save opportunities. If you truly think Todd Jones is a better option, I don't know what Todd Jones you've been watching the last few years.

I do understand where you are coming from, and no one here has said he can't lose his job at some point. The thread was based on the premise that he will come back in the middle relief role once he comes back from his injury. That is what I'm arguing against. The Marlins invested in Mota when they traded for him. They gave up LoDuca and Penny in that trade so they clearly were high on Mota. After seeing how Mota handled closing last season, they did seem to be a bit concerned in the off-season backing themselves up with Alfonseca and Jones. However, Jones will always only be a last case scenario of the 3. When healthy, Mota will really have to blow a bunch of saves before they go with a healthy Alfonseca too and Alfonseca is still out awhile. All I'm saying is that when Mota comes back (assuming he comes back healthy soon), I wouldn't expect him to lose his job for quite awhile (at least until Alfonseca is back healthy).
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Postby donny23 » Fri May 13, 2005 5:09 pm

Sp_Da_Man wrote:Good debate guys. Some guy that had Jones just released him & I'm always on the lookout for a guy who could steal some saves.

Just seeing with Mota's inexperience and arm issues if anyone thought Jones might be worth grabbing.


If you have the spot, sure. The bigger issue than Mota's lack or reliability as a closer is his health. Pick up Jones if you can afford to because you never know how Mota will come through these arm troubles. I have both Mota and Jones so I feel safe for now.
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Postby warrick95 » Fri May 13, 2005 7:44 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:2 for 2 is a bit misleading - he also got the L on 4-16, but he entered when the game was tied.
He didnt fair too well as FLA's closer last yr after they dealt for him either.

My enitre argument against Mota isnt that he is a bad pitcher (clearly he is good), but rather he isnt as much of a lock to remain their closer as some might have you believe. Just be careful in that you dont rely on him too much. His preseason ranking was pretty off in that he was considered in many rankings to be on the cusp of a top 10 closer, and I simply think that was too high because of the uncertainty surrounding him.


I'm very high on Mota (top-10 closer had he not had such a heavy workload over the past couple of years), but I also agree that McKeon may make a switch because he tends to love playing the veterans. It was the same with getting a player like Jeff Conine into the lineup during the championship run. He seems to just trust them more. Look...I doubt they'll just demote Mota because of the injury, but I do believe that his leash is shorter than y'all think. If he makes a couple of mistakes early on, Jones (or El Pulpo when he returns) could get the call. Remember, even though Jones' ERA is bad, the SV/OPP is what matters. However ugly it is, the job is done as long as he converts the save.
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Postby GSes » Fri May 13, 2005 8:18 pm

no there is really no chance of Mota not returning to the closer role almost immediateky upon return.

sorry to the optmistic todd jones owners but he will not keep the the job, and in fact he isnt even very good. he been good so far this year, but his track record says he is not even close to being capable of a ML closer.

anyways Mota was doing fine before he got hurt, just the fish gave him no save opps.

anyone who thinks he isnt gonna reclaim his closer role is oviously not up to date.

the only way Todd Jones gets saves once mot returns is

mota gets hurt again
or
mota completely implodes.............and there is no sign of that happening.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Sat May 14, 2005 12:20 am

warrick95 wrote:Look...I doubt they'll just demote Mota because of the injury, but I do believe that his leash is shorter than y'all think. If he makes a couple of mistakes early on, Jones (or El Pulpo when he returns) could get the call. Remember, even though Jones' ERA is bad, the SV/OPP is what matters. However ugly it is, the job is done as long as he converts the save.


Exactly. Mota could be on a shorter leash than you guys think. FLA is a win now team, and all Im suggesting is if he goes out and blows a few saves - which isnt that far fetched a concept given his stats as a closer from last yr - he could be yanked. Mckeon will not be patient with Mota or any other closer - he will go with who is getting the job done.

No one is saying Mota has lost his job - thats not the argument. This is just a warning that the situation isnt as rosy as Mota owners care to believe.
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Postby jayman » Sat May 14, 2005 12:24 am

Todd Jones? No way.
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Postby Laean » Sat May 14, 2005 12:30 am

it's pretty simple i think.

mota will get a chance to close again when he returns. no way they give up on him for no reason just because jones is doing well, when they got mota to close and he didn't even screw up this year to justify losing his job.

but if people are thinking his position to hold onto his job is secure, they're mistaken. he was very reminiscent of latroy hawkins last year when he did get to close for the marlins after benitez was gone, and if that continues even for just a couple of games when he returns, he's going to get the hook quickly.
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Postby KolbSaves » Sat May 14, 2005 1:56 am

GSes wrote: he been good so far this year, but his track record says he is not even close to being capable of a ML closer.

Except for the few years when he was? :-?
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