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Billy Beane is no genius

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Postby OREO fan » Mon May 09, 2005 3:11 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
OREO fan wrote:
Conner wrote:
OREO fan wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:In fantasy: Tejada > Chavez
In real life: Chavez > Tejada


tejada has been the MVP once already - he led the league in RBI last year and his on his way to being among the leaders this year - he is at least in the top 5 fielding shortstops (a much tougher position to fill with a quality player than 3rd) - is this entire statement based on OBP? i mean come on - giambi has about a .400 OBP right now - is he really helping the Yanks?


Just for the sake of argument:

1) He shouldn't have won the MVP. Not at all.

2) He's definitely not a top five defensive shortstop. He's mediocre defensively.


how are you judging his defensive capabilities? he has great range and while he does boot the occasional ball - i would say he is much better than mediocre for his position

i am a homer so i am definitely biased here - but just out of curiosity name 5 better


His fielding % is slightly below average, his range factor is slightly above average. He is average defensively.


he actually led all shortstops in range factor last year - and he was top 5 in zone % (the only other stat espn.com provides on this other than fielding %) what other stats can be used to judge a fielder?
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Postby George_Foreman » Mon May 09, 2005 3:14 pm

bean turned mulder in to calero and harden (not to mention barton), both of which will be with the club long after next year. i don't see what anyone's problem with that deal was.

the hudson one hasn't quite panned out as quickly, but they got some solid guys in that deal, as well.
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Postby Conner » Mon May 09, 2005 3:15 pm

OREO fan wrote:
Conner wrote:
OREO fan wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:In fantasy: Tejada > Chavez
In real life: Chavez > Tejada


tejada has been the MVP once already - he led the league in RBI last year and his on his way to being among the leaders this year - he is at least in the top 5 fielding shortstops (a much tougher position to fill with a quality player than 3rd) - is this entire statement based on OBP? i mean come on - giambi has about a .400 OBP right now - is he really helping the Yanks?


Just for the sake of argument:

1) He shouldn't have won the MVP. Not at all.

2) He's definitely not a top five defensive shortstop. He's mediocre defensively.


how are you judging his defensive capabilities? he has great range and while he does boot the occasional ball - i would say he is much better than mediocre for his position

i am a homer so i am definitely biased here - but just out of curiosity name 5 better


Statistics.

And, no...I'm not talking about errors or fielding percentage...and, no....there's absolutely no chance that I'm going to bother to attempt to explain any of them. And, yes...I've seen him play many many times.
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Postby Steve Eckstut » Mon May 09, 2005 3:23 pm

beltrans_boy wrote:In fantasy: Tejada > Chavez
In real life: Chavez > Tejada

And he didn't choose to resign Zito instead of Mulder or Hudson. It was just that he could get a LOT more for Mulder and Hudson than he could for Zito. Also, since the A's are a small market team, it would have been almost impossible to give Hudson or Mulder the kind of money they could get on the open market.


Tejada plays at a position where he is so far and away the best, that it would be a damn shame if he weren't MVP. Think about the VORP.
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Postby OREO fan » Mon May 09, 2005 3:23 pm

Conner wrote:
OREO fan wrote:
Conner wrote:
OREO fan wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:In fantasy: Tejada > Chavez
In real life: Chavez > Tejada


tejada has been the MVP once already - he led the league in RBI last year and his on his way to being among the leaders this year - he is at least in the top 5 fielding shortstops (a much tougher position to fill with a quality player than 3rd) - is this entire statement based on OBP? i mean come on - giambi has about a .400 OBP right now - is he really helping the Yanks?


Just for the sake of argument:

1) He shouldn't have won the MVP. Not at all.

2) He's definitely not a top five defensive shortstop. He's mediocre defensively.


how are you judging his defensive capabilities? he has great range and while he does boot the occasional ball - i would say he is much better than mediocre for his position

i am a homer so i am definitely biased here - but just out of curiosity name 5 better


Statistics.

And, no...I'm not talking about errors or fielding percentage...and, no....there's absolutely no chance that I'm going to bother to attempt to explain any of them. And, yes...I've seen him play many many times.


well - thanks for bringing up a point "just for the sake of argument" and then not bothering to explain the logic behind yours - you've definitely convinced me ;-7
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Postby Deuce » Mon May 09, 2005 3:26 pm

As you may recall, when the A's allowed Jason Giambi to walk away, it was so they could sign the big 3 or Tejada. WELL

Did their market get smaller after that year. Ask the twins about small markets. They are still competitive.

Don't expect the A's to have more money anytime soon. This team can't even come close to filling the seats. In my estimation, if they continue with this trend, Billy Beane will be the topic of new team rumors and then reality.
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Postby Conner » Mon May 09, 2005 3:29 pm

OREO fan wrote:
Conner wrote:
OREO fan wrote:
Conner wrote:
OREO fan wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:In fantasy: Tejada > Chavez
In real life: Chavez > Tejada


tejada has been the MVP once already - he led the league in RBI last year and his on his way to being among the leaders this year - he is at least in the top 5 fielding shortstops (a much tougher position to fill with a quality player than 3rd) - is this entire statement based on OBP? i mean come on - giambi has about a .400 OBP right now - is he really helping the Yanks?


Just for the sake of argument:

1) He shouldn't have won the MVP. Not at all.

2) He's definitely not a top five defensive shortstop. He's mediocre defensively.


how are you judging his defensive capabilities? he has great range and while he does boot the occasional ball - i would say he is much better than mediocre for his position

i am a homer so i am definitely biased here - but just out of curiosity name 5 better


Statistics.

And, no...I'm not talking about errors or fielding percentage...and, no....there's absolutely no chance that I'm going to bother to attempt to explain any of them. And, yes...I've seen him play many many times.


well - thanks for bringing up a point "just for the sake of argument" and then not bothering to explain the logic behind yours - you've definitely convinced me ;-7


I never intended to convince you of anything.

You certainly haven't convince me that Tejada is great defensively, though. Not by a long shot.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Mon May 09, 2005 3:31 pm

OREO fan wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
OREO fan wrote:
Conner wrote:
OREO fan wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:In fantasy: Tejada > Chavez
In real life: Chavez > Tejada


tejada has been the MVP once already - he led the league in RBI last year and his on his way to being among the leaders this year - he is at least in the top 5 fielding shortstops (a much tougher position to fill with a quality player than 3rd) - is this entire statement based on OBP? i mean come on - giambi has about a .400 OBP right now - is he really helping the Yanks?


Just for the sake of argument:

1) He shouldn't have won the MVP. Not at all.

2) He's definitely not a top five defensive shortstop. He's mediocre defensively.


how are you judging his defensive capabilities? he has great range and while he does boot the occasional ball - i would say he is much better than mediocre for his position

i am a homer so i am definitely biased here - but just out of curiosity name 5 better


His fielding % is slightly below average, his range factor is slightly above average. He is average defensively.


he actually led all shortstops in range factor last year - and he was top 5 in zone % (the only other stat espn.com provides on this other than fielding %) what other stats can be used to judge a fielder?


Yes, last year he was #1, in 2003 he was #8 and in 2002 he was #12. I said he is slightly above average in RF, so maybe I will amend that to he is a solid ss. I will say that he is smart and doesn't make a lot of mental mistakes.
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Postby superfly » Mon May 09, 2005 3:45 pm

In 2004, Tejada was 17th among SS in fielding % and 1st in "range" according to ESPN. Chavez was 7th among 3b in fielding % and 1st in "range."

In 2003, Tejada was 14th in F% and 8th in range. Chavez was 5th in F% and 1st in range.
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Postby Deuce » Mon May 09, 2005 3:56 pm

My point is, he let Giambi and Tejada get away because he wanted to keep the Big 3. Personally, I would have kept either of the other two. Zito's problems were apparent last year when they still had all three. Bad decision on Beane's part. It had nothing to with the market size. He gambled and lost. Chavez, the other signing during that period isn't helping any either.

Moneyball = Owners taking home money at the end of the season.
Baseball = Playing the game to win the World Series ring.

Moneyball is happening in Oakland - Congratulations to the new owners.
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