Does collusion have to be "willing"? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Does collusion have to be "willing"?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Does collusion have to be "willing"?

Postby Pochucker » Mon May 09, 2005 9:34 am

Here is situation 10t h2h $100 entry league. 7 of us work together. we have one guy who tries to prey on the weakest member. League three yrs old so track record.
The weak member has never made a trade with anyone one else but the other guy! He has in fact said doesnt want to trade at all but other guy badgers him every day until he does.
This year no trades yet because weak guy just got on computer last week. Week guy has 4 centerfielders on his roster but needs pitching. Does he trade centerfielder for pitcher? Well sorta.
Other guy wants Blalock and M. Bradley for Vasquez and Ensberg who he picked up off waiver wire early last week!
This year we put in veto system should we veto?
Pochucker
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 679
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 4 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Mookie4ever » Mon May 09, 2005 9:40 am

Collusion does have to be willing otherwise it is called stupidity. That's what you've got here, an owner who really doesn't know how to play and is ruining it for everybody else.

The solution is to not let him back in the league next year.

The trade that you mentioned is not vetoable. You should have tried to get Blalock and Bradley from him before, the other owner just beat you to him.
Image
Mookie4ever
Head Moderator
Head Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterHockey ModBasketball ModFootball ModMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 19542
(Past Year: 281)
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Hakuna, Montana

Postby baseballnewb » Mon May 09, 2005 9:45 am

I disagree, stupid trades destroy the integrity of the league so, no, collusion does not have to be voluntary. I do agree you should not invite the person back into the league though if this is a repeated thing. I'm not sure thats a vetoable trade, though it is a horrible trade.
baseballnewb
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 629
Joined: 8 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby benjapage » Mon May 09, 2005 9:56 am

collusion takes two cheaters to tango. one player exploited a weaker player. no cheating, here.

b
yeah, yes...
benjapage
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 2767
Joined: 26 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Postby josebach » Mon May 09, 2005 10:04 am

Collusion is a "secret agreement between two or more parties for a fraudulant, illegal or deceitful purpose".

Considering that the weaker player is oblivious, it can't be collusion. It is the league's responsibility to make sure that uneven trades like this don't happen. That's why you have the veto power and that's why you have to use it.
josebach
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 2036
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Tallahassee

Postby thomasps3 » Mon May 09, 2005 10:08 am

Here's a funny thing....

Last year, I was in an AL-only league that has no veto or anything. Well, I traded Magglio Ordonez(remember him?) and Pudge Rodriguez for Carl Crawford and Joe Nathan. Everybody in the league said that was the stupidest trade they had ever seen, and that I didn't get enough back. However, here is where this story becomes pertinent to your league. As you know, Maggs went on to miss a substantial amount of time, and although Pudge had an excellent year, I ended up gaining an elite closer in Nathan, and a guy who stole 55 bases and hit .300

So the question you have to ask yourself is....does your league overvalue players based on reputation? I realize this trade looks ridiculous, but in baseball, the value of a trade cannot be fully determined until the games are played. What if Milton goes and blows up and gets suspended for 10-20 games? What if Blaylock gets injured? These ???s are realities that exist in the game, and should be accounted for as well as the players "perceived" value....
Image
thomasps3
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafe WriterMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 1672
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 2 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Giving BIG UPS to Teddy BallGame for the AWESOME SIG

Postby josebach » Mon May 09, 2005 10:11 am

thomasps3 wrote:Here's a funny thing....

Last year, I was in an AL-only league that has no veto or anything. Well, I traded Magglio Ordonez(remember him?) and Pudge Rodriguez for Carl Crawford and Joe Nathan. Everybody in the league said that was the stupidest trade they had ever seen, and that I didn't get enough back. However, here is where this story becomes pertinent to your league. As you know, Maggs went on to miss a substantial amount of time, and although Pudge had an excellent year, I ended up gaining an elite closer in Nathan, and a guy who stole 55 bases and hit .300

So the question you have to ask yourself is....does your league overvalue players based on reputation? I realize this trade looks ridiculous, but in baseball, the value of a trade cannot be fully determined until the games are played. What if Milton goes and blows up and gets suspended for 10-20 games? What if Blaylock gets injured? These ???s are realities that exist in the game, and should be accounted for as well as the players "perceived" value....


You can't play the what-if scenario. You can only decide based on what is presently known. In other words, you can's allow Pujols to be traded for Finley straight up because Pujols could hypothetically be injured next week. Nobody can predict the future. Know what I mean?
josebach
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 2036
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Tallahassee

Re: Does collusion have to be "willing"?

Postby Conner » Mon May 09, 2005 10:14 am

Pochucker wrote:Here is situation 10t h2h $100 entry league. 7 of us work together. we have one guy who tries to prey on the weakest member. League three yrs old so track record.
The weak member has never made a trade with anyone one else but the other guy! He has in fact said doesnt want to trade at all but other guy badgers him every day until he does.
This year no trades yet because weak guy just got on computer last week. Week guy has 4 centerfielders on his roster but needs pitching. Does he trade centerfielder for pitcher? Well sorta.
Other guy wants Blalock and M. Bradley for Vasquez and Ensberg who he picked up off waiver wire early last week!
This year we put in veto system should we veto?


The way you leave out simple words like "the", "is" and even "a" really bugs me.
Conner
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 760
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Mookie4ever » Mon May 09, 2005 10:15 am

josebach wrote:
thomasps3 wrote:Here's a funny thing....

Last year, I was in an AL-only league that has no veto or anything. Well, I traded Magglio Ordonez(remember him?) and Pudge Rodriguez for Carl Crawford and Joe Nathan. Everybody in the league said that was the stupidest trade they had ever seen, and that I didn't get enough back. However, here is where this story becomes pertinent to your league. As you know, Maggs went on to miss a substantial amount of time, and although Pudge had an excellent year, I ended up gaining an elite closer in Nathan, and a guy who stole 55 bases and hit .300

So the question you have to ask yourself is....does your league overvalue players based on reputation? I realize this trade looks ridiculous, but in baseball, the value of a trade cannot be fully determined until the games are played. What if Milton goes and blows up and gets suspended for 10-20 games? What if Blaylock gets injured? These ???s are realities that exist in the game, and should be accounted for as well as the players "perceived" value....


You can't play the what-if scenario. You can only decide based on what is presently known. In other words, you can's allow Pujols to be traded for Finley straight up because Pujols could hypothetically be injured next week. Nobody can predict the future. Know what I mean?


I agree. If you do that then by your logic an offseason trade of Brandon Lyon for Eric Gagne would be fair.
Image
Mookie4ever
Head Moderator
Head Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterHockey ModBasketball ModFootball ModMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 19542
(Past Year: 281)
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Hakuna, Montana

Postby Dmville » Mon May 09, 2005 10:21 am

Ya, but just like an investment, past performance is not a guarentee of future results. If a player was a 30/30 guy last year witha .300 BA he doesn't have to be this year. What if an owner picks up on something besides just regular stats everyone looks at? An owner should be allowed to value a player any way he pleases. Every player eventually diminishes.

I traded away a couple high salary good pitchers from last year to get a couple younger, cheaper guys in our league. Everyone though I was nuts to do it, but the fact was the guys I traded were a couple pitchers that had a ton of line drives hit off them last year and very well may have just gotten lucky breaks and good D. With a different D behind them and a different park, I didn't want any part of them. So far it has been about a wash, but I freed up a bunch of salary in the process.
Dmville
Dmville
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 499
Joined: 8 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Next

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: joiingds and 8 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Tuesday, Jul. 29
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

LA Angels at Baltimore
(7:05 pm)
Seattle at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
Chi White Sox at Detroit
(7:08 pm)
Milwaukee at Tampa Bay
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Philadelphia at NY Mets
(7:10 pm)
Washington at Miami
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Arizona at Cincinnati
(7:10 pm)
Toronto at Boston
(7:10 pm)
Colorado at Chi Cubs
(8:05 pm)
NY Yankees at Texas
(8:05 pm)
Oakland at Houston
(8:10 pm)
Minnesota at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Atlanta at LA Dodgers
(10:10 pm)
St. Louis at San Diego
(10:10 pm)
Pittsburgh at San Francisco
(10:15 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact