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Postby davidmarver » Fri May 06, 2005 2:26 am

I no longer play in leagues without owners I have played with for multiple seasons or at least have chatted to for an extended period of time. Generally, when you are in a league with members you know, it isn't too difficult to round 2-3 other owners into an AIM Chat room and pound out a nice 3-way deal in a few minutes, as long as the other owners have been entertaining offers on the league message board. Otherwise, a solid 90% of the trade offers I make are rejected although at least 75% are reasonable trades. Often owners overvalue their own players, so it makes it difficult to deal unless you already know who the owner likes/dislikes on his team and who he likes/dislikes on your own team. This practically makes dialogue a necessity before trades are accepted.
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Postby agchris02 » Fri May 06, 2005 3:42 am

davidmarver wrote:I no longer play in leagues without owners I have played with for multiple seasons or at least have chatted to for an extended period of time. Generally, when you are in a league with members you know, it isn't too difficult to round 2-3 other owners into an AIM Chat room and pound out a nice 3-way deal in a few minutes, as long as the other owners have been entertaining offers on the league message board. Otherwise, a solid 90% of the trade offers I make are rejected although at least 75% are reasonable trades. Often owners overvalue their own players, so it makes it difficult to deal unless you already know who the owner likes/dislikes on his team and who he likes/dislikes on your own team. This practically makes dialogue a necessity before trades are accepted.


2 good points here - 1) no longer play in public leagues -- Ive been playing FFBL for years, but this is the first year Ive ever played in public leagues, did it on a whim, and wont again

2) owners over value their own players, Im not sure how to deal with this though


And as to everyone elses comments, it appears some people dont negoitate, and others do

As to why you dont start with your best offer -- thats dumb, and is bad strategy, you either COULD be hurting yourself out of a better deal, or guarenteeing that youll never get that player at all if youre dealing with someone who EXPECTS to negotiate (as in, they KNOW thats not your best offer and expect you to improve)

Its a fine line to walk between lowballing an offer and giving your "2nd best one", i just wish fantasy owners werent so finicky
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Postby dracovonborax » Fri May 06, 2005 8:44 am

Maybe they don't overvalue their players...they just value them as much as you do. i for one like to trade...in my league, there has been 5 trades made this season and i have been involved in 4 of them. i agree, you need to see the other managers team as your own and look at your team to see how you would fix it. this way evryone comes out happy...especially if you were looking to deal someone you didn't fel you needed anyway.
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Postby quicksilver8 » Fri May 06, 2005 8:53 am

I normally try to offer a fair trade that fills a need on my team and the other guy's team. I really don't try to lowball other guys...it just pisses them off and hurts your rapport with them, which can affect future trading. I do try to sell high (so later on down the road if the sell high guys fades, the trade can look lopsided in hindsite).

As for negotiating, I try to include a 'salesman pitch' along with my offer showing the good points of the guys I'm offering and how they can help his team...sometimes though, less is more. ;-D
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Postby RugbyD » Fri May 06, 2005 9:03 am

The Guru wrote:I don't really understand why ppl get offended by a bad offer.


Because my time is valuable and apparently your's isn't. It indicates to me that you are a) too stupid to trade with or b) not serious about trading, and therefore a waste of my time in either case.
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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Fri May 06, 2005 10:20 am

RugbyD wrote:
The Guru wrote:I don't really understand why ppl get offended by a bad offer.


Because my time is valuable and apparently your's isn't. It indicates to me that you are a) too stupid to trade with or b) not serious about trading, and therefore a waste of my time in either case.


Agree. If you want to negotiate, then give me something to negotiate. If you start too low, I figure what's the point - all you're trying to do is rip me off. I used to negotiate with low offers, but all I did was waste my time - as they were so far from an "even" trade that trying to get them up to that level took too long and was a PIA. So, I just hit reject when I receive a stupid offer. Or, for fun, I'll counter with an equally stupid offer - you waste my time, I'll waste yours.

For me, I start with a solid offer, as well as a separate email (or in the comments section of the offer) as to why I'm making the offer (e.g. "I'm looking for another closer, I see you have 4 of them, but look like you need some help in the OF") and then make the offer - and then I look for his 2nd best guy and offer my 3rd or 4th best player at that position. As such, if he accepts, good for me. But I haven't insulted him by offering my #5 OF for his #1 closer - and he knows what I'm trying to accomplish - and if we end up in a #2 for a #2 or #3 for #3, great - a deal that helps both.

Now, at the same time, if he counters for my #1 OF with his #4 closer, I back away.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Fri May 06, 2005 11:11 am

Most of the offers I get in our money/ friends league seem to be of the 2 players who's 'value' added together is close to the value of a single player I have variety. All I am really hurting for is a big bat, which, of course, no one is willing to 'spend' on a pitcher or pitchers. I'd deal my big bats around, perhaps adding in a spare RP or something but, at the same time, then it seems like I'm giving away the farm.
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Postby great gretzky » Fri May 06, 2005 12:53 pm

well if you think about it, when you get an offer, you have something they want. So it isn't overvaluing per se, it is using leverage.

I guess my philosophy would be "depends" -- you can usually glean enough info from the draft sheet, their pickups/drops and their lineups to determine who they like and what their trading philosphy is like.

I definitely lowball the people who don;t impress me much, or counter with stupid things. The bonehead ones are worth waiting out until their desperate. Trying to early, and they overvalue too much. But if they are disappointed, they also tend to undervalue Cuts both ways.

The contending teams? And I mean the teams that are actually strong, and they make strong pickups etc. I don't pussyfoot around too much. you have to give those teams something to think about.

The reason is, if you alientate the people who know what they are doing, you really really screw yourself by having to deal with the people whom don't.

There is one guy in my work league whom everyone avoids. he offered me hinske for lidge. Then I counted lyon for beltre to make a point. so he thought I really wanted beltre and offered me beltre fro schmidt and lidge. What do you do with that? It is a descent into maddness.
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Postby The Guru » Fri May 06, 2005 2:04 pm

RugbyD wrote:
The Guru wrote:I don't really understand why ppl get offended by a bad offer.


Because my time is valuable and apparently your's isn't. It indicates to me that you are a) too stupid to trade with or b) not serious about trading, and therefore a waste of my time in either case.

Give me a break.

It takes 1 second to see a trade and click 'cancel' "Time is valuable" is pure crab.

You can either counter or cancel. But to be offended is just stupid.
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Postby great gretzky » Fri May 06, 2005 2:49 pm

there is a level where it is insulting. I used to not think so, but I got a hinske for lidge offer like a week into the season. that is pretty damn bad.

I didn't get bent out of shape, but I was a touch like "wtf"
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