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Trade negotiations

Postby agchris02 » Fri May 06, 2005 12:33 am

Im curious, do most of yall expect to have to negotiate a trade, or do you just expect your offers to be rejected or accepted? When you recieve an offer do you typically counter, or if you like it accept it right away?

Im running into problems in my leagues where no one wants to negotiate and they actually get insulted by offers they dont think they should accept instead of countering. I agree you can waste someone's time on an offer, but VERY rarely (unless Im targeting a player like A-rod who no one wants to trade) am I going to give my best offer the first time -- is that normal? Or is that considered rude?

(The deal that got this whole discussion in my leageue started was C Biggio, H Matsui, and O Dotel for Soriano and Berkman -- POINTS LEAGUE NOT ROTO) and the guy thought I had just insulted him and pretty much the whole league did too. My point was that for an initial offer, its not half bad -- especially with his closers being Lyon and Wickman.

Anyways, I was just curious how many expect to negotiate trades and who doesnt.
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Postby The Guru » Fri May 06, 2005 12:49 am

I expect 90-95% of my trades to get rejected. I check my email everyday just too see which ones got rejected recently, its kind of funny.

I find it very hard to trade in my league. I usually offer a deal that is somewhat fair but def in my favor. I expect that person to counter if they don't want to do the trade, but they usually just get offended by my intial offer.

I don't really understand why ppl get offended by a bad offer.

I usually try to fix a hole on the team I'm trading with; because I feel they are forced to do a uneven trade to fix that hole.

I've been trying to get a top closer for Percival and Lugo (or Renteria) but no one will bite. My league highly over values closers. Its annoying.

I'm a big fan of upgrading, so I try to do package deals. Like right now I'm trying to trade Lugo or Renteria because Uguchi is on WW and I like him as much as either of them. So trading one of them away doesn't hurt me at all.

I think my trading strategy would work in other leagues but my league doesn't like to trade.
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Postby Pedantic » Fri May 06, 2005 12:55 am

I always like to get some sort of dialogue going. Talking with someone over a deal gets both parties on the same page, even if it doesn't lead to a deal. You might also learn a thing or two that could prove useful somewhere down the road.

That said, I don't start too low with my first offer; fantasy owners can be a sensitive bunch when it comes to their teams. If you give them an outrageous first offer, they'll be inclined to think you're an idiot and refuse to neogotiate. I give them an offer that I think is decent (but not too lucrative). If the neogotiations start to head in a direction that would favor the other team more than my own because I started too "high", I just back it up, or, of course, since I went into it knowing I didn't have to make the deal, I could always just end the discussions.

I never like to get into the mindset of trying to hit the jackpot (i.e. ripping off the other owner). Those kind of trades only happen in public leagues or leagues with less experienced owners. So instead of hoping to strike it rich, I aim for a slight gain. A few trades with slight gains comes out better than striking out on every offer and insulting every owner in the league in the process. Naturally, owners don't always see eye-to-eye on player values, so sometimes they'll be offended no matter what you do.
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Postby baseball6791 » Fri May 06, 2005 1:07 am

The Guru wrote:I expect 90-95% of my trades to get rejected. I check my email everyday just too see which ones got rejected recently, its kind of funny.

I find it very hard to trade in my league. I usually offer a deal that is somewhat fair but def in my favor. I expect that person to counter if they don't want to do the trade, but they usually just get offended by my intial offer.

I don't really understand why ppl get offended by a bad offer.

I usually try to fix a hole on the team I'm trading with; because I feel they are forced to do a uneven trade to fix that hole.

I've been trying to get a top closer for Percival and Lugo (or Renteria) but no one will bite. My league highly over values closers. Its annoying.

I'm a big fan of upgrading, so I try to do package deals. Like right now I'm trying to trade Lugo or Renteria because Uguchi is on WW and I like him as much as either of them. So trading one of them away doesn't hurt me at all.

I think my trading strategy would work in other leagues but my league doesn't like to trade.


i agree... i dont see y bad trade offers offend ppl, and if i can i try to get into some negotiations first. ud never make ur first offer ur best offer and thats just common sense
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Postby agchris02 » Fri May 06, 2005 1:25 am

Good, glad Im not the only one...Ive even been one to post the following:

C Utley for
AJ Burnett, P Martinez, T Hudson, and J Peavy

ALONG WITH
"Im trying to gain another SP, these are the guys Im interested in, who do you like on my team?"

you wont believe the number of owners who take this as a personal insult and then refuse to even talk anymore (yes normally public leagues), one of my forrays into a public league, the other owner posted that to the message board and now NO ONE will even talk to me about trading because "all you try to do is rip people off." Just one more reason to avoid public leagues :)
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Postby AcesFull » Fri May 06, 2005 1:31 am

Why not start off with a strong offer? I don't see the need to dance around the issue so much. I look at from both ends, and if I for sure wouldn't do it then why offer. I have had a number of trades offered to me that were quite lopsided and every time it leeds to no negotiation. My thought is if we are that far off from the beginning then negotiating is probably a waste of my time. We by the way don't have a waiver wire, so if you can't get trades done you are done...
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Postby AcesFull » Fri May 06, 2005 1:37 am

By the way I am not saying you should make your best offer first, but I would say I usually go with my second. I do agree that you are best off trying to feel each other out, then making the offer. A good dialouge between the owners can bridge the gap. What I hate is the prodding "what do you want for ___ ?" Dude look at my team and offer me what I need..
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Postby ActionHero » Fri May 06, 2005 1:42 am

I've found that it seems to work better if you just start with an open dialogue. I try to complement the other owner on his team and at the same time point out what I perceive to be his weaknesses. Then ask if he's interested in X, who could potentially help that particular weakness. I usually have a player in mind on his team that I'm eyeing and start the discussion at that point. If you can get the other owner to admit he's got a weakness and that player X could help his team, you're off to a good start.
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Postby Iconoclastic » Fri May 06, 2005 2:18 am

Stupid owners- give them stupid offers. Good owners- cut to the chase.
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Grady Sizemore will have more value than Jason Bay regardless of draft position

Aramis Ramirez in 155 G will hit over .300 40 HR 110 RBIs

Brian McCann will have more value than Jorge Posada regardless of draft position
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Postby Madison » Fri May 06, 2005 2:23 am

Most of my trade offers end up taking the other owner awhile to think about.

Reason?

I make them a solid offer. I help them out somehow, and I get help in return.

Too many people start way, way low end when trying to negotiate a trade. They offer something like Turnbow and Casey for Billy Wagner when the Wagner owner already has Pujols at 1B. They expect the Pujols owner to counteroffer, which is just plain silly.

Myself, I just click the "reject" button unless someone steps to me with a halfway decent offer. Then I'll counter if I think there's a deal that can be worked. Normally, I'll only get a few stupid offers from those types of owners per year. They do realize after time that you have some idea of what you're doing and that you're not going to waste your time unless they are serious about getting a deal done that benefits both teams.
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