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Tom Glavine Target of a Conspiracy???

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Postby RugbyD » Wed May 04, 2005 12:34 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:Seriously, though, is the author suggesting that the MLB umpires want Questec's system to stick around? I thought they hated that thing as much as the players do.


Why would they hate it? It takes the burden of calling strikes off of them....if a manager complains, they can simply fall back on the fact that the machine said so, not them.

I wouldn't want a machine telling me how to do my job, and I definitely wouldn't want to be graded against the output of a machine. That's just me, though.


In this case thgouh its very difficult to argue against objective criticism, esp when its within half an inch. The umps hate it because it undermines (and rightfully so) their power. The rules are clear and the umps, for whatever reason I can't imagine, have decided to just make their own stuff up. Nobody likes being called out for being wrong and that's exactly what Questec does. I think it's great as a constructive criticism tool for umps that are actually trying to follow the rules. Of course someone who maybe can't succeed without getting balls called as strikes will not like it.
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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Wed May 04, 2005 1:38 pm

Cooner wrote:
slomo007 wrote:Good point, I guess. I'm not really sure how they would view it...but I would imagine that some of them don't want to be in the spotlight of a controversy so would likely rather have the machine. :-?

As for Glavine, well, he just sucks.


I'm pretty sure the idea is this-

1. umpires hate Questec- it makes their bad calls obvious (and all umps make one at some point or another) and it makes their role in the game obselete. It also creates some accountability, which is something no union (the umpires union i mean) will support.

2. If Tom Glavine can't get strikes called for him because Questec/MLB has started enforcing the strike zone, he gets frustrated with the system.

3. Glavine, in his influential role in the players union, gets the MLBPA to get on board the "banish the Questec" bandwagon, and the MLBPA/Ump's Union get MLB to can Questec. This takes us back to the "shorter, wider" strike zone that Glavine has always been successful with in the past.

A bit of a reach, but umps getting Glavine frustrated with a Questec strike zone (and the ump can say, hey, it wasn't my strike zone, it was Questec's strike zone that made you walk 6 guys) causing the PA to hate the system is the general idea.


I'd say you're right on the way the conspiracy would play out. Who knows. I've seen more far-fetched theories.

That said, maybe Glavine should realize that a pitch 8 inches off the plate IS NOT A STRIKE and stop complaining.

Honestly, when he took $1M/year more to go with a lesser (at the time) team, I hoped he would never reach 300 wins. Unless he picks it up and goes Jamie Moyer on everyone, it's getting less likely with each start. That would be a bit of sweet justice.
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Postby Cooner » Wed May 04, 2005 1:59 pm

Dawgpound 1613 wrote:That said, maybe Glavine should realize that a pitch 8 inches off the plate IS NOT A STRIKE and stop complaining.

Honestly, when he took $1M/year more to go with a lesser (at the time) team, I hoped he would never reach 300 wins. Unless he picks it up and goes Jamie Moyer on everyone, it's getting less likely with each start. That would be a bit of sweet justice.


I don't think Glavine has actually complained at all, or has blaimed anyone. I was just saying that's how the conspiracy idea has it happening. I'm pretty sure Glavine is smart enough to realize he's just not pitching well at the moment, not necessarily blaiming the umps. You'll note in StLSlugger's post, it clearly says "MAY be the next"
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Postby reznorsboy » Wed May 04, 2005 2:29 pm

The umpires are unionized. Likea any good union I'm sure if they don't like the system they would band together and call there own strike zone and not the questec crap. Plus I'm sure they are kinda like Judges and have an ego and there fore would not want to follow a system but rather would use there own judgement. Really what could MLB do if they nband together? fire them all I don't think so.
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Postby StlSluggers » Wed May 04, 2005 2:32 pm

reznorsboy wrote:Really what could MLB do if they nband together? fire them all I don't think so.

You don't remember the umpire "strike" a few years back? They canned a ton of umps, and not just the ones without seniority.

Anybody remember the final "body count"?
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Postby Amazinz » Wed May 04, 2005 3:01 pm

slomo007 wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:Seriously, though, is the author suggesting that the MLB umpires want Questec's system to stick around? I thought they hated that thing as much as the players do.


Why would they hate it? It takes the burden of calling strikes off of them....if a manager complains, they can simply fall back on the fact that the machine said so, not them.

I'm pretty sure they do hate it because what you describe is not the way it works. The Questec system is not used during the game. The ump still calls the game as he normally would (theoretically) and the computer calls the game seperately. After the game is over the ump's data is compared against the Questec data and the ump is graded. The idea is that the ump wil be more conscious about the official strike zone. I really don't have a problem with the Questec system if it's actually making the umps better although I think it has been in the league long enough now that they should know whether or not it works. If it works then put it in every major league park to level the playing field.

[RANT]
Aside from that, the whole idea that Questec is ruining Glavine's career is a bunch of garbage. No offense to anyone, I'm just a bitter Mets fan. The truth is that Glavine is garbage. If he is such a savvy veteran who has made a career off of his intelligence as opposed to "stuff", tell me why the dude can't adjust? It's been going on for three years now and he still can't figure it out! At this point in his career he needs another pitch but I guess that's not going to happen.

The only joy I will derive from this whole Glavine experience is if he damages his career enough that he doesn't make it to the HoF. That would be awesome.
[/RANT]
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Postby StlSluggers » Wed May 04, 2005 3:15 pm

I e-mailed the author of that quote I posted earlier. I simply asked him if he felt that the umpires were against Questec, too. Here is his reply:

I think the umpires hate it [Questec], and I think if they can enlist the Players Association in fighting MLB about it they will.

Glavine has been an outspoken opponent of Questec, and he’s a big wig in the MLBPA, and he suffers more than most pitchers because let’s face it, he’s lived off the outside to the plate most of his career. I think the umpires delight in taking that away from Tom, and blaming it on Questec in hopes that he’ll fire up troops in the MLBPA to stand with the umpires against it.

Do they outright stick it to Tom? I doubt it. But I think when given a reasonable defendable interpretation of the strike zone they prefer to error on the side of caution, and the side of Questec, more so when he pitches, and understand that he could do them some good in this battle if they tick him off enough.
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