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Pitchers with great 'stuff'

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Postby myteamsucks » Mon May 16, 2005 10:02 pm

jesse foppert (giants organization)

macdougal

jeremy accordo (giants again)

as mentioned, juan cruz
huston street
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Postby RawTalent » Mon May 16, 2005 10:14 pm

Wade Miller
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Postby This is the year » Mon May 16, 2005 10:16 pm

Phatferd wrote:He has a knuckleball, which I would suggest isn;t "stuff." He's a solid pitcher who has maintained a great career, however, he doesn't have "stuff."


I guess, but think of it this way: The guy can throw a ball at 60 miles per hour that hitters swing at and miss on a regular basis. He can accomplish things with that one pitch that many young pitchers can't accomplish with their mid-90's heat. I'd say that's pretty filthy 'stuff', all things considered


Don't mess with this guy \/ :*)
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Postby Phatferd » Mon May 16, 2005 10:44 pm

This is the year wrote:
Phatferd wrote:He has a knuckleball, which I would suggest isn;t "stuff." He's a solid pitcher who has maintained a great career, however, he doesn't have "stuff."


I guess, but think of it this way: The guy can throw a ball at 60 miles per hour that hitters swing at and miss on a regular basis. He can accomplish things with that one pitch that many young pitchers can't accomplish with their mid-90's heat. I'd say that's pretty filthy 'stuff', all things considered


Don't mess with this guy \/ :*)


I still don't think that is "stuff." He has 3 pitches and 1 is a great pitch. He throws a weak fastball an average curveball and a great knuckleball.

To me "stuff" is someone who has 3-4 great pitches. Like Pedro and his great fastball, splitter, change and slider.

Or a guy like Gagne who has a great fastball, and flithy change and curve.
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Postby This is the year » Mon May 16, 2005 10:57 pm

Phatferd wrote:I still don't think that is "stuff." He has 3 pitches and 1 is a great pitch. He throws a weak fastball an average curveball and a great knuckleball.

To me "stuff" is someone who has 3-4 great pitches. Like Pedro and his great fastball, splitter, change and slider.

Or a guy like Gagne who has a great fastball, and flithy change and curve.


So you would argue that Mariano Rivera doesn't have great "stuff" because he only has one incredible pitch? I can't agree with that.

Pedro doesn't throw a splitter, by the way.

I guess we can agree to disagree.
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Postby jjigglers » Mon May 16, 2005 11:00 pm

This is the year wrote:
Phatferd wrote:He has a knuckleball, which I would suggest isn;t "stuff." He's a solid pitcher who has maintained a great career, however, he doesn't have "stuff."


I guess, but think of it this way: The guy can throw a ball at 60 miles per hour that hitters swing at and miss on a regular basis. He can accomplish things with that one pitch that many young pitchers can't accomplish with their mid-90's heat. I'd say that's pretty filthy 'stuff', all things considered


Don't mess with this guy \/ :*)


I'm with this guy.
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Postby Phatferd » Mon May 16, 2005 11:01 pm

This is the year wrote:
Phatferd wrote:I still don't think that is "stuff." He has 3 pitches and 1 is a great pitch. He throws a weak fastball an average curveball and a great knuckleball.

To me "stuff" is someone who has 3-4 great pitches. Like Pedro and his great fastball, splitter, change and slider.

Or a guy like Gagne who has a great fastball, and flithy change and curve.


So you would argue that Mariano Rivera doesn't have great "stuff" because he only has one incredible pitch? I can't agree with that.

Pedro doesn't throw a splitter, by the way.

I guess we can agree to disagree.


Mariano doesn't have great stuff IMO, he has an ubelievably great pitch that has been very successful for him.

And you are right about the split, I was thinking that his change looks like a split.

Do you think Zito has stuff? I sure as heck don't he has a great pitch, not great stuff. A good pitcher doesn't have to have "stuff" in order to be good. And the other way around. To me "stuff" is plural and means you have to have an arsenal of great pitches.
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Postby This is the year » Mon May 16, 2005 11:42 pm

Phatferd wrote:Mariano doesn't have great stuff IMO, he has an ubelievably great pitch that has been very successful for him.

And you are right about the split, I was thinking that his change looks like a split.

Do you think Zito has stuff? I sure as heck don't he has a great pitch, not great stuff. A good pitcher doesn't have to have "stuff" in order to be good. And the other way around. To me "stuff" is plural and means you have to have an arsenal of great pitches.



No, Zito has an average change, a low-average fastball, and a plus curve that fooled batters for about two years. Now he is getting hammered. This is not good "stuff". Though Wake and Rivera only have that 'one' pitch, they can throw it over and over again with long-term continued success. Thus, the pitch is truly effective and difficult to hit, though I realize that if Clement only threw his slider or Colon only thew his 4-seamer he's get hammered. I guess we're probably debating the definition of the word; you believe that more than one pitch is necessary to make good "stuff", while I think that one very good pitch can suffice.

I do agree, though, that a good pitcher doesn't have to have "stuff" to be good (Someone like, to use a sox example, Bronson Arroyo) and a pitcher's "stuff" doesn't necessarily indicate long term success (Rick Ankiel says hi).

Anyway, thanks for the mind bender. Good thread.
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Postby looptid » Tue May 17, 2005 5:08 am

Beofre the impending Tommy John surgery... Grant Balfour. :,-(

74 Ks in 68 career innings.
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Postby btg34 » Tue May 17, 2005 10:33 am

I don't know if I just missed it, but I don't think anybody said K-Rod. His stuff looks pretty damn good to me.
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