Phatferd wrote:Mariano doesn't have great stuff IMO, he has an ubelievably great pitch that has been very successful for him.
And you are right about the split, I was thinking that his change looks like a split.
Do you think Zito has stuff? I sure as heck don't he has a great pitch, not great stuff. A good pitcher doesn't have to have "stuff" in order to be good. And the other way around. To me "stuff" is plural and means you have to have an arsenal of great pitches.
No, Zito has an average change, a low-average fastball, and a plus curve that fooled batters for about two years. Now he is getting hammered. This is not good "stuff". Though Wake and Rivera only have that 'one' pitch, they can throw it over and over again with long-term continued success. Thus, the pitch is truly effective and difficult to hit, though I realize that if Clement only threw his slider or Colon only thew his 4-seamer he's get hammered. I guess we're probably debating the definition of the word; you believe that more than one pitch is necessary to make good "stuff", while I think that one very good pitch can suffice.
I do agree, though, that a good pitcher doesn't have to have "stuff" to be good (Someone like, to use a sox example, Bronson Arroyo) and a pitcher's "stuff" doesn't necessarily indicate long term success (Rick Ankiel says hi).
Anyway, thanks for the mind bender. Good thread.