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Brazoban's future ...?

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Postby Slow Pitch » Mon May 02, 2005 6:51 pm

Yoda wrote:
Tokugawa wrote:Jimmyrad made a number of good points and I tend to agree. Until the players step up and approve a more sensible drug policy than the one in place ,then the assumption of innocent until proven guilty is really not applicable. It is only natural, due to the resistance of players to the current drug policy, that players have something to hide. Therefore Slow Pitch is more than justified in questioning whether Gagne, due to his strange injury situation and vastly improved stats, was in fact using steroids. Fans will continue to quesiton the credibility of players until the players take a greater responsibility in leading the way on the drug issue. So in this case Yoda, I think skepticism and questions are justified. I would like to believe that the majority of players are not on steroids and that statistical anomalies are explained by hard work. If hard work is the reason for Brian Roberts and Gagne's breakouts then the burden should be on them and other such individuals to campaign amongst their fellow baseball playing colleagues to approve a more sincere drug policy in order to win back the belief of the fans!!!


I didn't realize that in America, now everyone is guilty until proven innocent. When did this happen?

I agree that there will be a lot of players who test positive. But we shouldn't sit here and question or analyze every single person who went from mediocre to great. Looking at the players who tested positive, I'm predicting that there will be a lot more marginal ball players than big time players who used steroids.

We don't know whether Gagne did roids or not. However, the reasons why the poster thought that he used them are absolutely ridiculous. Fat face? 7% weight gain? Throwing harder? Give me a break.


What legit reasons are there other than actually physical proof.

What were the signs for Giambi, McGuire & company...big weight & strengh gain, facial changes in shapes to a much wider version than previous & monster performance gains. The exact same signs for Gagne. Circumstancial..yes, but even in our innocent until proven guilty legal system, circumstancial evidence has been enough to convict some people.
Last edited by Slow Pitch on Mon May 02, 2005 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Yoda » Mon May 02, 2005 6:52 pm

Phatferd wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Tokugawa wrote:Jimmyrad made a number of good points and I tend to agree. Until the players step up and approve a more sensible drug policy than the one in place ,then the assumption of innocent until proven guilty is really not applicable. It is only natural, due to the resistance of players to the current drug policy, that players have something to hide. Therefore Slow Pitch is more than justified in questioning whether Gagne, due to his strange injury situation and vastly improved stats, was in fact using steroids. Fans will continue to quesiton the credibility of players until the players take a greater responsibility in leading the way on the drug issue. So in this case Yoda, I think skepticism and questions are justified. I would like to believe that the majority of players are not on steroids and that statistical anomalies are explained by hard work. If hard work is the reason for Brian Roberts and Gagne's breakouts then the burden should be on them and other such individuals to campaign amongst their fellow baseball playing colleagues to approve a more sincere drug policy in order to win back the belief of the fans!!!


I didn't realize that in America, now everyone is guilty until proven innocent. When did this happen?


Let me introduce you to a little thing called America. This is the place where if you refuse to take a breathalizer test you are presumed to be guilty of drunk driving.

You may want to quit while your ahead.


Sigh... I'll just ignore you from now on. There is really no point in arguing with someone who obviously doesn't know what the hell is going on.

Good luck in your APril Only League! ;-D
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Postby Rirruto » Mon May 02, 2005 6:53 pm

You guys need to chill out, go have an eskimo pie or something.
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Postby davidmarver » Mon May 02, 2005 6:55 pm

Yoda wrote:I didn't realize that in America, now everyone is guilty until proven innocent. When did this happen?

We don't know whether Gagne did roids or not. However, the reasons why the poster thought that he used them are absolutely ridiculous. Fat face? 7% weight gain? Throwing harder? Give me a break.


In the social aspect of America, we are guilty until proven innocent. It's only judicially that we are not. Why do you think Kobe's rep took such a huge hit when he was accused of rape? Why is slander such a huge offense even if admittedly false? It's because people percieve things they hear or see to be true whether or not they are.

And what's wrong with him attempting to prove his point with feasible evidence? Everything he presented is a characteristic of a 'typical' steroid user. Sure, it's speculation that he actually took steroids, but it's a more educated guess because of these facts.
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Postby Phatferd » Mon May 02, 2005 7:05 pm

Yoda wrote:
Phatferd wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Tokugawa wrote:Jimmyrad made a number of good points and I tend to agree. Until the players step up and approve a more sensible drug policy than the one in place ,then the assumption of innocent until proven guilty is really not applicable. It is only natural, due to the resistance of players to the current drug policy, that players have something to hide. Therefore Slow Pitch is more than justified in questioning whether Gagne, due to his strange injury situation and vastly improved stats, was in fact using steroids. Fans will continue to quesiton the credibility of players until the players take a greater responsibility in leading the way on the drug issue. So in this case Yoda, I think skepticism and questions are justified. I would like to believe that the majority of players are not on steroids and that statistical anomalies are explained by hard work. If hard work is the reason for Brian Roberts and Gagne's breakouts then the burden should be on them and other such individuals to campaign amongst their fellow baseball playing colleagues to approve a more sincere drug policy in order to win back the belief of the fans!!!


I didn't realize that in America, now everyone is guilty until proven innocent. When did this happen?


Let me introduce you to a little thing called America. This is the place where if you refuse to take a breathalizer test you are presumed to be guilty of drunk driving.

You may want to quit while your ahead.


Sigh... I'll just ignore you from now on. There is really no point in arguing with someone who obviously doesn't know what the hell is going on.

Good luck in your APril Only League! ;-D


Why are you wishing me luck I already won it! I'll take this as you not having anything left in the tank. You may want to think about transforming yourself from a Starter to a Middle Reliever.

I'm going to go have that eskimo pie right now.

I hope you aren't putting me in with the group of 3 people who think Gagne is on ROIDS. It has been discussed already that I don' think he's on ROIDS. If you haven't figured this one out yet, you are a lost cause.
Last edited by Phatferd on Mon May 02, 2005 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Yoda » Mon May 02, 2005 7:06 pm

Phatferd wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Phatferd wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Tokugawa wrote:Jimmyrad made a number of good points and I tend to agree. Until the players step up and approve a more sensible drug policy than the one in place ,then the assumption of innocent until proven guilty is really not applicable. It is only natural, due to the resistance of players to the current drug policy, that players have something to hide. Therefore Slow Pitch is more than justified in questioning whether Gagne, due to his strange injury situation and vastly improved stats, was in fact using steroids. Fans will continue to quesiton the credibility of players until the players take a greater responsibility in leading the way on the drug issue. So in this case Yoda, I think skepticism and questions are justified. I would like to believe that the majority of players are not on steroids and that statistical anomalies are explained by hard work. If hard work is the reason for Brian Roberts and Gagne's breakouts then the burden should be on them and other such individuals to campaign amongst their fellow baseball playing colleagues to approve a more sincere drug policy in order to win back the belief of the fans!!!


I didn't realize that in America, now everyone is guilty until proven innocent. When did this happen?


Let me introduce you to a little thing called America. This is the place where if you refuse to take a breathalizer test you are presumed to be guilty of drunk driving.

You may want to quit while your ahead.


Sigh... I'll just ignore you from now on. There is really no point in arguing with someone who obviously doesn't know what the hell is going on.

Good luck in your APril Only League! ;-D


Why are you wishing me luck I already won it! I'll take this as you not having anything left in the tank. You may want to think about transforming yourself from a Starter to a Middle Reliever.

I'm going to go have that eskimo pie right now.


No I got plenty in the tank. Just dont' have time to waste my breath.
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Postby Phatferd » Mon May 02, 2005 7:07 pm

Damn you're quick on the reply button. I added to my previous post, so you may want to update yours once again.
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Postby davidmarver » Mon May 02, 2005 7:09 pm

Yoda wrote:No I got plenty in the tank. Just dont' have time to waste my breath.


Good thing you type on this board, not speak.


Grow up? Who started name calling?

Have you really resorted to a who started it mentality?

And by the way, responding to my other posts would be nice Yoda. Don't respond to this one, the others will do.
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Postby Tokugawa » Mon May 02, 2005 7:31 pm

Yoda my point was NOT a general one about American society, it was a SPECIFIC point about baseball, that with the current drug policy and the reluctance of players to face the issue, that a guilty until proven innocent arguement is justifialbe.

Until Gagne gives a clean urine sample and closes the way he has in the past, then I (and others in the Cafe) will question him!

As I said before this is not my general outlook on other sports or society in general, it is purely one about baseball. So next time understand the post properly before you respond, otherwise you make yourself look stupid.
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Postby klvrdude » Mon May 02, 2005 7:32 pm

I starting reading this thread about Brazoban's future then my head just started to hurt from all this school yard antics. I think you (the person who started the thread) and I should just trade him so we don't have to read this anymore.

:~( :~( :~(
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