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Postby great gretzky » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:47 pm

trust me when I say this -- when you are in a points league -- it behooves you to figure out the top ten of htitters, sp, rp and the vagaries of the league become quickly apparent.

I like the idea fo points leagues, I hate how overvalued closers and basestealers can be -- yet at the same time, they can be WAY gimiicky with the points system they use.

Manyimes, starters are so reigned in, it isn't worth it. Its better to use the name of the stud starters to pry lose the best hitters, then use closers and mr's to gradually gain points for you.

I swear points leagues should go with a 30 points for a win, and something like -5 points for a loss.

I was ina goofy league that had 1 point for a hit, 2 for a double, 3 for a triple, 4 four a hr. except a hr, was actually five points, 1 for a hit, 4 for a hr, then you got 1 for a rbi, and 1 for a run. so a hr was 7. it was totally to your advantage to ignore pitching. that ain't even fun.
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Postby GiantFan666 » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:48 pm

like others have said... Don't waste your time w/ SP's!!! depending on how the league values positional players, I would start grabbing closers right from the 1st couple of rounds... looking at the settings for pitchers I'm envisioning -5 points for k's and -20 per error :-o
I would def. grab all the closers w/ SP elg. as well... Something to remember with points leagues is that when drafting don't worry some much about hitter/pitcher just make sure your getting the player that is gonna get you the highest points per game (ppg) w/ the lowest amount of risk
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Postby Steve-o » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:56 pm

great gretzky wrote:I was ina goofy league that had 1 point for a hit, 2 for a double, 3 for a triple, 4 four a hr. except a hr, was actually five points, 1 for a hit, 4 for a hr, then you got 1 for a rbi, and 1 for a run. so a hr was 7. it was totally to your advantage to ignore pitching. that ain't even fun.


You have just described the scoring system for the league I am in. It is terrible.

Not to mention I paid 150 to join. (The pitching scoring was changed the day before the draft, unbeknowst to me, and I couldn't quit because it is a bunch of people I have a professional relationship with.)
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Postby Bukoski77 » Sun May 01, 2005 5:09 am

The scoreing system on the initial post is a joke. Point league scoreing systems can be fun, but it takes alot of work to get them balanced.

Here is the scoreing a very advanced custom H-H points league I am in.

Special Scoring for Starting Pitchers
BBI - Walks Issued (Pitchers) -1 point
CG - Complete Games 3 points
ER - Earned Runs -1 point
HA - Hits Allowed -1 point
INN - Innings 3 points
K - Strikeouts (Pitcher) 1 point
L - Losses -5 points
NH - No-Hitters 15 points
PG - Perfect Games 20 points
QS - Quality Starts 7 points
SO - Shutouts 10 points
W - Wins 10 points


Special Scoring for Relief Pitchers
BBI - Walks Issued (Pitchers) -1 point
BS - Blown Saves -4 points
CG - Complete Games -5 points
ER - Earned Runs -1 point
GS - Games Started (Pitcher) -10 points
HA - Hits Allowed -.5 points
HD - Holds 5 points
INN - Innings 2 points
IRS - Inherited Runners Scored -1 point
K - Strikeouts (Pitcher) 1 point
RL - Relief Losses -4 points
RW - Relief Wins 10 points
S - Saves 13 points


In that league we start 5SP and 3RP each week. You might notice it is set up so that starting pitchers used in a RP spot if they are eligible are penalized for a Game Started, and cant recieve credit for the win if they do get it. There is a difference between a W and a relief W.

We start 10 hitters in that league as well.

It took us several years of tweaking with virtually every owner offering suggestions and input to get the league balanced with the scoreing between pitchers VS hitters.

Over the last 2 seasons with that system in place, all teams have combined to score over 25,000 fantasy points the last two years. Bye fantasy points the players had to be in our active lineups. If they where riding our fantasy bench then their stats didnt count.

Each of those past two seasons there has been less than 2% difference between the amount of points our pitchers and hitters have accumilated.

For H-H points leagues that is about as close to 5X5 roto value as you can get.
Last edited by Bukoski77 on Sun May 01, 2005 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DGroundhog » Sun May 01, 2005 6:28 am

Wow, nuts.

I went into a points league this year, and though I'm doing well, it clearly doesn't touch a well thought out roto-league. The best way to win is abuse the system in place.
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The draft

Postby Dodger Blue » Sun May 01, 2005 8:59 am

The Draft was last nite. 20 Rounds. Then people had to go to bed. I have 5 bench spots to fill yet.

1st A Pujols 4th Pick overall
2nd Soriano
3rd Crawford
4th M Cabbs
5th Billy Wagner
6th Mariano Rivera
7th Aramis Rameriz
8th Jimmy ROllings
9th Carlos Lee
10 David Wright
11th Joe Mauer
12th Lance Berman
13th BJ Ryan
14th Hoffman
15 Kolb
16th Rich Harden
17th Brad Penny
18th Corey Patterson
19th Livan H
20th Rowand

I took a couple of pitchers in case there is a change of heart and the point system changes.
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Postby Fantasy Guru » Sun May 01, 2005 2:28 pm

Y'all are forgetting one important stat. So DodgerBlue didn't get the best advice...

1 IP is worth 15 points. Which would be 5 points for a third of an inning.
So by my math, 200 innings is worth 3,000 points.

Are starters that worthless now?
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Postby Fantasy Guru » Sun May 01, 2005 2:35 pm

great gretzky wrote:yea, jsut exploit it, take the money then join a more fun league next season.


Easier said than done.
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Postby Fantasy Guru » Sun May 01, 2005 6:18 pm

Spartans Rule wrote:I ran some numbers on this and the dynamic is worse than I could have ever imagined - check these FP totals from last year:

Top closers:
Mariano Rivera 1328
Eric Gagne 1326
Armando Benitez 1283

Mediocre closers:
Jose Mesa 831
Danny Graves 566

Top starters:
Johan Santana -297
Randy Johnson -587
Pedro Martinez -1062

Bad starters:
Jason Jennings -2189
Ryan Franklin -2201

I don't think I really have to explain what to do with this information.


Okay, now for the REAL point totals,

Mariano Rivera: 2488
Eric Gagne: 2546
Armando Benitez: 2328

Jose Mesa: 1858
Danny Graves: 1585

Johan Santana: 3096
Randy Johnson: 3068
Pedro Martinez: 2145

Jason Jennings: 805
Ryan Franklin: 774

I don't think I really have to explain what to do with this information.
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Postby Dodger Blue » Sun May 01, 2005 11:14 pm

pitching points
by: DodgerBlue (rasmussen06) Apr 30 7:13pm
is this right?

W (30), L (-15), SV (30), H (-5), ER (-10), BB (-3), HBP (-3), K (3)

Good lord if you give up 5 (-25)hits and 2 (-20) runs and win (30)the game you could still lose points.


Since I asked the same question in the messages in the league it would have been nice to get an answer. I'm suprised that when I cut and pasted the above cats I missed the one about innings pitched. Oh Well.
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