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Why is Mike Gonzalez not closing somewhere??

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Postby Yoda » Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:26 pm

Gonzalez is eligible for arbitration I believe after this season. If they turned him into a closer at some point, they will need to shell out a lot more money than necessary.

Most importantly though, Mesa is getting the job done. He wants to stay in PIT as their closer and they didn't trade him last year even though teams were looking for bullpen help. Gonzalez has an excellent future and probably become a closer but not in 05.
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Postby Rirruto » Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:28 pm

ESPN Insider wrote: Apr. 21 - The Mets have made overtures to the Pirates about obtaining left-handed reliever Mike Gonzalez, the New York Daily News reports. Gonzalez, who has the ability to eventually close, pitched in 47 games last season and had a 1.25 ERA.

The Mets also are believed to have interest in John Grabow, another Pittsburgh southpaw.


Very vague, wouldn't think much of it.
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Postby warrick95 » Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:32 pm

Cooner wrote:
warrick95 wrote:This is kind of consistent with how relievers were used in yesteryear. They were put into the game at the BEST time that the manager saw fit. For example, if 3-4-5 was due up in the 8th, the manager wouldn't hesitate to put his best reliever in, because 3-4-5 in the 8th will be harder than 6-7-8 in the 9th.


Huh, I didn't know that. You learn something every day around here ;-D


You might want to check out Bill James' Historical Abstract sometime. It discusses briefly the different patterns that "closers" (best relievers) have been used and how effective each method was.
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Postby davidmarver » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:18 pm

bolkonsky wrote:Some of us at the cafe won't like the simplicity of this reason, but here goes:

He is a lefty.

Go do some research before you flame away and you will find the number of successful closers in the history of baseball is closer to 0 than it is to 20.


Billy Wagner, Eddie Guardado, Randy Myers, Dave Righetti, Mark Davis, Mitch Williams, John Franco, John Rocker, Dan Plesac, Willie Hernandez, Jesse Orosco, John Hiller, Sparky Lyle, Terry Forster, Ron Perranoski, Al Hrabosky, Hal Woodeshick, Luis Arroyo, Al Brazle, Mickey Harris, Joe Page, Ken Raffensberger, Clyde Shoun, Cliff Melton, Carl Hubbell, Lefty Grove, Bill Sherdel, Garland Braxton, Chick Davies, Jakie May, and Dickie Kerr all are left-handed pitchers who either had a season of 30+ saves, or led their league in saves.

In all-time career saves, there are 20 left-handers in the top 100.

Maybe you should do your research before you flame other people.
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Postby Box » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:28 pm

Wouldn't you be leery of trading your best young arm in the bullpen if your closer was Jose Mesa too?

See KRod and Percival in Anaheim last year. Same deal. MikeyG will remain a Pirate.
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Postby bolkonsky » Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:05 pm

First of all, I wasn't flaming anyone.

Second, the list you have presented is not very impressive...especially when compared with the list of closers who are righties.

Perhaps I overstated the point, as there are some notable lefty closers (Franco, Myers), but the fact remains that lefties, for whatever reason, are not regularly made closers in MLB. Accordingly, to hold on to left handed relievers in fantasy play, holding out hope against hope that they will be made the closer is, in my view, a poor percentage play. If you want to be the guy that allows M. Gonz, D. Marte and the like eat up roster spots, be my guest.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:10 pm

bolkonsky wrote:First of all, I wasn't flaming anyone.

Second, the list you have presented is not very impressive...especially when compared with the list of closers who are righties.

Perhaps I overstated the point, as there are some notable lefty closers (Franco, Myers), but the fact remains that lefties, for whatever reason, are not regularly made closers in MLB. Accordingly, to hold on to left handed relievers in fantasy play, holding out hope against hope that they will be made the closer is, in my view, a poor percentage play. If you want to be the guy that allows M. Gonz, D. Marte and the like eat up roster spots, be my guest.


Wagner, Affeldt, Ryan and Guardado are closers at the moment. All very good and reliable except for Affeldt.

It is true that lefty relievers are better used based on match ups against lefty hitters but that doesn't make that worthless.

I've won plenty of leagues and I am a huge fan of stocking good MRs for boost in K, ERA, WHIP with occasional W and SV. They are much more valuable than you make them out to be.
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Postby SouthBronxBombers » Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:15 pm

I'm not sure how you can say Ryan is reliable. There is just not enough time in for that yet.

And he is right. Managers are loathe to use lefties to close. The majority of hitters are right handed and they have a better chance to hit lefties. They just can pick up the ball better. There have been a handful of lefty closers, but they are the exceptions to the rule.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:56 pm

SouthBronxBombers wrote:I'm not sure how you can say Ryan is reliable. There is just not enough time in for that yet.

And he is right. Managers are loathe to use lefties to close. The majority of hitters are right handed and they have a better chance to hit lefties. They just can pick up the ball better. There have been a handful of lefty closers, but they are the exceptions to the rule.


It's a mistake to lump all lefties and make a blanket statement like "lefties are not good as closers".

As for Ryan, it's still early but he looks pretty darn good to me:

10.2 IP, 9 H, 3 ER, 4 BB, 17 K, 3/3 in saves chances... He's in for a monster season if you ask me. The guy knows how to pitch.
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Postby bolkonsky » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:07 pm

It's a mistake to lump all lefties and make a blanket statement like "lefties are not good as closers".

This might be true. I am glad I never said that.
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